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Re: [papyrus-rt-dev] First 0.9.0 bug (maybe)
Hi,

Some comments line below.

/Peter Cigéhn

On 28 March 2017 at 17:34, Ernesto Posse <eposse@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Comments inline.

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 3:28 AM Peter Cigéhn <peter.cigehn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi,

Regarding the UML-RT specific diagrams on the "New Diagram..." menu is apparently pretty confusing. I wrote bug 511187 to track some improvements in this area, specifically regarding the creation of state-machine diagrams. The existence of the possibility of creating UML-RT specific diagrams on the "New Diagram..." menu have never been intentional (if it ever have been possible). We for example removed the possibility of creating these diagram types in the new model wizard, since it does not make sense to create a "stand alone" capsule structure diagram, or state-machine diagram, without a capsule or state-machine. See for example the discussion in bug 475805. The creation of these diagrams have always been intended to be made automatically when creating the capsule or the state-machine. But apparently this seem to be confusing.

So if users expect the possibility of being able to create the diagrams directly, then we probably should extend bug 511187 to also cover the creation of capsule structure diagrams. But the behavior then should of course be to create the capsule (at the location where the user selects to create the diagram) and then as usual let the creation of the capsule create its owned/nested capsule structure diagrams. We should probably also think through whether we shall have a specific, "New UML-RT Diagram..." menu, similar to the specific "New UML-RT Child..." menu, to make it clear where you find the standard UML stuff, vs. the UML-RT specific stuff.

I don't have an opinion on this, other than as a user I prefer to have the least number of menus and options possible and keep the UI streamlined. It just surprised me that those entries that I had been used to were no longer there. 

​I had to check a bit in the 0.8 release, and from what I can see, the New Diagram... menu looked the same there. Keep in mind the the existence of the UML-RT Capsule Structure Diagram is limited to be shown only when you right click on a capsule. It is not shown when you right click on the package for example, it was not visible in 0.8 and is not visible on 0.9 either. I am not fully sure when in time you say that it was visible, and under which circumstances, i.e. right-clicking on which elements. The UML-RT State Machine Diagram was not show on the New Diagram menu in 0.8 either.

Anyway, all this should be tracked by bug 511187 to cover the, as Charles put it, "diagram creation first" work flows...


Some more comments inline below.

On 27 March 2017 at 22:39, Ernesto Posse <eposse@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I realized something. Setting the Viewpoint configuration did work. But I thought it didn't because the new diagram types are not available anymore in the "New Diagram..." context menu. I was not aware that these had been removed. But otherwise it works fine now, so yes, it was the Viewpoint configuration after all.

I did this exercise precisely because a user had trouble when attempting it. He wanted to install it using the update site because he wanted to be able to have Papyrus-RT together with other modelling tools in the same Eclipse environment. Is it possible to make such mixtures with the Eclipse Installer?

 
​Well, if you write your own setup file, making a "combined" setup file for Papyrus-RT together with whatever else you want to have installed, then that I guess should be fine (unless that other modeling tool for some reason have some conflict with Papyrus/Papyrus-RT). Personally I think that every tool-smith, that works with putting together their own configuration of Papyrus-RT with whatever else they want, should spend time on learning how to author Oomph setup files. Personally I think that it is a well spent investment, that gives payback just for a few re-installations of your specific setup... 

I agree that doing your own Oomph setup is a good thing to do, but not all users are "toolsmiths". They may just want to install a bunch of features in the same environment. Expecting such a user to write their own Oomph setup might be a bit too much to ask.

​I explicitly wrote tool-smiths, since as you say, all users are definitively not tool-smiths. But if we feel that we have non-tool-smith users, that still are as advanced that they have a need for manually using p2 repositories, then we probably need to make it a lot easier for them.

I am far from any expert on p2 repos and what you can do with them, but I guess what could/should be done then is setup a composite repo of all the needed repos that we currently bring in stuff from, i.e. make a composite repo of the individual repos that we list on the Oomph setup file, and then create a top-top-level feature that brings in all the individual features​ that the current Oomph setup file brings in. Basically the user should only have to add *one* p2 repo, and only have to select *one* top-top-level feature, when doing it manually from the "Install New Software..." menu.

Not sure if this is possible to achieve or not, but if we are serious about supporting this installation scenario, then I guess this is something that have to be done. But how many different installation scenarios and different kind of "skill levels" for people doing installations shall we maintain? How much time and resources can we ourselves spend on providing all these different combinations? Testing, maintaining, keeping synchronized?

Sure, if we create such a composite repo and top-top-level feature, then we can simplify the Oomph setup file, to only list one p2 repo and one feature. So we can reduce what we need to keep synchronized. We just need to maintain the composite repo and the top-top-level feature.

And for any possible different configurations of Papyrus-RT we maintain different top-top-level features I guess.
 
 
On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 1:33 PM Peter Cigéhn <peter.cigehn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi,

Just for the sake of it, I tried doing a manual installation directly from the p2 repositories. I started with downloading the Neon.3 C/C++ package. Then I added

I started from the minimal platform: the bare Eclipse platform. 

​Okay, so you made the initial installation with the Eclipse Installer? I cannot find a downloadable .zip-file with only the Eclipse platform. I was doing this test

No, I didn't use the Installer. You can get the bare platform here: http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/R-4.6.3-201703010400/ under "Platform Runtime Binary". You can reach that page from the Eclipse downloads page by selecting "Download packages", then "Other builds" (on the right) and then selecting the version. It's only 68MB. I think it's possible to get something even more barebones, but this is what I would call the "base". It doesn't come with the JDT, or even the PDE. Granted, it is not what most users will use, but it still works, once you add all the required update sites and install Papyrus.

 
with a scenario that I found more likely, i.e. for a user that already had an existing Eclipse installation, based on one of the packages.

Yes, that is more likely. In fact this user wanted to install Papyrus-RT on top of the Eclipse Modeling Tools package. But he still had the same problems.

​Yes, but I assume that the problems he and you had, was more related to the lack of instructions. I don't see that the fact that I got it to work on top of the C/C++ package (I was actually very close to selecting the Modeling package as my base installation) is what made the difference.​

 

Anyway, I guess it should not really matter (as we already have concluded) which initial installation you base this scenario on.
​
 
all the needed repositories, i.e. the same list as in the Oomph setup file. Made sure to only have those enabled. Then I installed all the features, selecting "All Available Sites“ so I could install all features at once. Selected the same features as in the Oomph setup file apart from CDT and EGit since they were already part of the package. 

After installation everything worked as expected. I could switch to the Papyrus perspective and I could switch to the UML-RT viewpoint. Creating a capsule with a statemachine also created the diagrams as expected. So from what I can tell this all works as expected. 

I think we are back to the fact that we have no good instructions. So I really don't know what you did that made it not work. As Charles wrote, we will have expert users running into the same issues as you did Ernesto. 

To be honest though, I don't understand how anyone would like to go through this when you use an Oomph setup file instead... ;-)

/Peter Cigéhn 

Den 27 mars 2017 6:17 em skrev "charles+zeligsoft.com" <charles@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
+1 on:

I don't think so. But the website does warn that this option is for "Eclipse veterans”.


Exactly. Since we point out that using the p2 is for "experts", we could just put a short list of the requirements and settings in the wiki, rather than comprehensive instructions.



However…we do need to be ready to answer questions from the expert Eclipse veterans… Forewarned is forearmed!

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Ernesto Posse
Zeligsoft

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