Re: [papyrus-rt-dev] First 0.9.0 bug (maybe)

[Ernesto Posse <eposse@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Comments inline.

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 3:28 AM Peter Cigéhn <peter.cigehn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi,

Regarding the UML-RT specific diagrams on the "New Diagram..." menu is apparently pretty confusing. I wrote bug 511187 to track some improvements in this area, specifically regarding the creation of state-machine diagrams. The existence of the possibility of creating UML-RT specific diagrams on the "New Diagram..." menu have never been intentional (if it ever have been possible). We for example removed the possibility of creating these diagram types in the new model wizard, since it does not make sense to create a "stand alone" capsule structure diagram, or state-machine diagram, without a capsule or state-machine. See for example the discussion in bug 475805. The creation of these diagrams have always been intended to be made automatically when creating the capsule or the state-machine. But apparently this seem to be confusing.

So if users expect the possibility of being able to create the diagrams directly, then we probably should extend bug 511187 to also cover the creation of capsule structure diagrams. But the behavior then should of course be to create the capsule (at the location where the user selects to create the diagram) and then as usual let the creation of the capsule create its owned/nested capsule structure diagrams. We should probably also think through whether we shall have a specific, "New UML-RT Diagram..." menu, similar to the specific "New UML-RT Child..." menu, to make it clear where you find the standard UML stuff, vs. the UML-RT specific stuff.

I don't have an opinion on this, other than as a user I prefer to have the least number of menus and options possible and keep the UI streamlined. It just surprised me that those entries that I had been used to were no longer there. 

Some more comments inline below.

On 27 March 2017 at 22:39, Ernesto Posse <eposse@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I realized something. Setting the Viewpoint configuration did work. But I thought it didn't because the new diagram types are not available anymore in the "New Diagram..." context menu. I was not aware that these had been removed. But otherwise it works fine now, so yes, it was the Viewpoint configuration after all.

I did this exercise precisely because a user had trouble when attempting it. He wanted to install it using the update site because he wanted to be able to have Papyrus-RT together with other modelling tools in the same Eclipse environment. Is it possible to make such mixtures with the Eclipse Installer?

 

​Well, if you write your own setup file, making a "combined" setup file for Papyrus-RT together with whatever else you want to have installed, then that I guess should be fine (unless that other modeling tool for some reason have some conflict with Papyrus/Papyrus-RT). Personally I think that every tool-smith, that works with putting together their own configuration of Papyrus-RT with whatever else they want, should spend time on learning how to author Oomph setup files. Personally I think that it is a well spent investment, that gives payback just for a few re-installations of your specific setup... 

I agree that doing your own Oomph setup is a good thing to do, but not all users are "toolsmiths". They may just want to install a bunch of features in the same environment. Expecting such a user to write their own Oomph setup might be a bit too much to ask.

 

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 1:33 PM Peter Cigéhn <peter.cigehn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi,

Just for the sake of it, I tried doing a manual installation directly from the p2 repositories. I started with downloading the Neon.3 C/C++ package. Then I added

I started from the minimal platform: the bare Eclipse platform. 

​Okay, so you made the initial installation with the Eclipse Installer? I cannot find a downloadable .zip-file with only the Eclipse platform. I was doing this test

No, I didn't use the Installer. You can get the bare platform here: http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/R-4.6.3-201703010400/ under "Platform Runtime Binary". You can reach that page from the Eclipse downloads page by selecting "Download packages", then "Other builds" (on the right) and then selecting the version. It's only 68MB. I think it's possible to get something even more barebones, but this is what I would call the "base". It doesn't come with the JDT, or even the PDE. Granted, it is not what most users will use, but it still works, once you add all the required update sites and install Papyrus.

 

with a scenario that I found more likely, i.e. for a user that already had an existing Eclipse installation, based on one of the packages.

Yes, that is more likely. In fact this user wanted to install Papyrus-RT on top of the Eclipse Modeling Tools package. But he still had the same problems.

 

Anyway, I guess it should not really matter (as we already have concluded) which initial installation you base this scenario on.

​

 

all the needed repositories, i.e. the same list as in the Oomph setup file. Made sure to only have those enabled. Then I installed all the features, selecting "All Available Sites“ so I could install all features at once. Selected the same features as in the Oomph setup file apart from CDT and EGit since they were already part of the package. 

After installation everything worked as expected. I could switch to the Papyrus perspective and I could switch to the UML-RT viewpoint. Creating a capsule with a statemachine also created the diagrams as expected. So from what I can tell this all works as expected. 

I think we are back to the fact that we have no good instructions. So I really don't know what you did that made it not work. As Charles wrote, we will have expert users running into the same issues as you did Ernesto. 

To be honest though, I don't understand how anyone would like to go through this when you use an Oomph setup file instead... ;-)

/Peter Cigéhn 

Den 27 mars 2017 6:17 em skrev "charles+zeligsoft.com" <charles@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

+1 on:

I don't think so. But the website does warn that this option is for "Eclipse veterans”.

Exactly. Since we point out that using the p2 is for "experts", we could just put a short list of the requirements and settings in the wiki, rather than comprehensive instructions.

However…we do need to be ready to answer questions from the expert Eclipse veterans… Forewarned is forearmed!

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Ernesto Posse

Zeligsoft

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