Re: [january-dev] Newbie using January

[Jonah Graham <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Scott,

Sorry we were talking cross purposes. I think we should take it under
advisement to add a feature. I won't object if one of the other
committers wants to set that up (and maintain the duplicate info, or
investigate automatically generating the feature from meta data we
already have).

Jonah

~~~
Jonah Graham
Kichwa Coders Ltd.
www.kichwacoders.com


On 20 January 2017 at 19:03, Scott Lewis <slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Yeah I know Jonah, thanks.   My point is that a lot of people don't know
> this and can be aided by features that break things up for them.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> On 1/20/2017 9:43 AM, Jonah Graham wrote:
>>
>> Hi Scott,
>>
>> Unless I am misunderstanding, adding the following to your target file
>> will mean you can consume from the p2 directly without needing
>> features. The p2 meta info has all the dependency info needed.
>>
>> <location includeMode="planner" includeAllPlatforms="false"
>> includeSource="true" includeConfigurePhase="false"
>> type="InstallableUnit">
>> <unit id="org.eclipse.january" version="0.0.0"/>
>> <repository id="january-1_0"
>>
>> location="http://download.eclipse.org/january/releases/1.0.0/repository/"/>
>> </location>
>>
>> Or if you are using TPD files, you can do this:
>>
>> location "http://download.eclipse.org/january/releases/1.0.0/repository/";
>> january-1_0 {
>> org.eclipse.january lazy
>> }
>>
>> The above snippets are from the example here
>>
>> https://github.com/eclipse/january/tree/JANUARY_1_0_0/org.eclipse.january.examples
>>
>> As for Source-Reference header, that is just a bug in our build AFAIK,
>> issue raised: https://github.com/eclipse/january/issues/55
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jonah
>> ~~~
>> Jonah Graham
>> Kichwa Coders Ltd.
>> www.kichwacoders.com
>>
>>
>> On 20 January 2017 at 17:32, Scott Lewis <slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jonah,
>>>
>>> On 1/20/2017 2:26 AM, Jonah Graham wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Scott,
>>>
>>> Great to hear that the January is in use out there. Thanks for following
>>> the
>>> list on this incubating project to keep up with the changes.
>>>
>>> We currently provide the plug-ins as top level entities, like other
>>> foundational stuff (e.g. Orbit) without the features. Perhaps this is
>>> wrong
>>> because it's not what consumers expect. But as January is not consumed
>>> directly by end users I am not sure what a feature with a single plug-in
>>> adds.
>>>
>>>
>>> Having the features metadata in p2 repo does allow easy installation into
>>> a
>>> target platform (particularly if that target platform isn't Eclipse).
>>> This
>>> is our use case...we add org.eclipse.january bundle only to our
>>> non-Eclipse
>>> target platform.  We currently do it by putting that one bundle in
>>> directory
>>> and adding directory to target...but it would be nicer for us to consume
>>> directly from the p2 repo with some logical set of features (e.g. ~3 it
>>> seems for January currently).
>>>
>>> WRT source/workspace.   You can encourage/enable the direct import of
>>> specific bundles via Source-Reference header in manifest.
>>> https://wiki.eclipse.org/PDE/UI/SourceReferences.
>>>
>>> And you can do the repo reorganization as you say below.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My understanding is that the biggest problem we are facing is twofold
>>> (but
>>> related)
>>>
>>> 1 - contributors to org.eclipse.january plug-in, which has very few
>>> dependencies, are put off by importing the January git repo and finding
>>> out
>>> they need things like xtend compiler installed in their dev environment
>>> and
>>> that their are a whole bunch of unexpected dependencies (like UI and
>>> Xtext
>>> ones).
>>>
>>> 2 - consumers have the same problem, if they don't know to add just
>>> org.eclipse.january plug-in to their target, they end up with loads of
>>> unexpected dependencies too.
>>>
>>> What I would love is a concrete solution for these. My current
>>> inclination
>>> is that we should follow Xtext's lead and split up the git repo and p2
>>> site.
>>> All under the January name and leadership, but ease the problems
>>> identified
>>> in this thread. Something along this line seems to give the best of both
>>> worlds. The other possibility is just better docs + perhaps two Oomph
>>> setups, one core and one everything.
>>>
>>> I truly believe we can make this a one stop shop for the Science data
>>> structures. Now we just have to find tine to do one of these solutions.
>>>
>>> Jonah
>>>
>>> On 20 Jan 2017 04:00, "Scott Lewis" <slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for jumping in without being fully familiar with what's happening,
>>>> but as a happy user of the org.eclipse.january core plugin* I think
>>>> these
>>>> troubles with the non-core plugins (xtext, geometry, form, etc) could be
>>>> solved via p2 features...couldn't it?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps have a 'core/dataset' feature (that has only the
>>>> org.eclipse.january plugin and source), and then 1 or more other
>>>> features to
>>>> hold xtext, geometry, and form plugins.
>>>>
>>>> I see from the 1.0 repo here:
>>>> http://download.eclipse.org/january/releases/1.0.0/repository/   that
>>>> there
>>>> are currently no features...just plugins.    Couldn't features help?
>>>> (As I
>>>> understand it Tycho handles features pretty easily and you seem to be
>>>> using
>>>> tycho).
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> *What I mean by this is that we are happily using the january dataset
>>>> and
>>>> metadata APIs from org.eclipse.january for a Kura-based Analytics
>>>> Framework.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/19/2017 8:44 AM, Peter.Chang@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we are at an impasse. The additional dependencies from the
>>>> geometry and form plugins are causing concern to potential January users
>>>> who
>>>> are just interested in the nD datasets as advertised by our marketing --
>>>> no-one expects the other parts!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can I propose that we modify the releng so that dataset-only build is
>>>> possible?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of McCaskey, Alex
>>>> Sent: 19 January 2017 14:33
>>>> To: Jay Billings <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>; january developer
>>>> discussions
>>>> <january-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Subject: Re: [january-dev] Newbie using January
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yea sure I can do that. I'll take some time out this morning to look at
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Jay Jay Billings <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alex McCaskey can probably give it a look. I'm traveling today.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jay
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 19, 2017 9:17 AM, "Jonah Graham" <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> (accidentally removed january-dev from last reply, Robert can you
>>>> re-reply on the mailing list too please :-)
>>>>
>>>> Hi Robert,
>>>>
>>>> Someone who is familiar with the code needs to review it. Who would
>>>> you recommend? Jay has started on it.
>>>>
>>>> Jonah
>>>>
>>>> ~~~
>>>> Jonah Graham
>>>> Kichwa Coders Ltd.
>>>> www.kichwacoders.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19 January 2017 at 13:34, Smith, Robert W. <smithrw@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonah,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pull Request #28 fixes bug #25 and most of #26, leaving only the
>>>>> updates
>>>>> to the README file and the addition of geometry and form examples,
>>>>> which are
>>>>> obviously non-essential. I believe this addresses most of Torkild's
>>>>> original
>>>>> concerns about these packages, though I'll be happy to also rename the
>>>>> *.xtext bundles to *.dsl if that would be clearer. I notice that
>>>>> multiple
>>>>> other pull requests have been merged in since two weeks ago when I
>>>>> submitted
>>>>> it, and was wondering what the was left to be done to allow it to be
>>>>> accepted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Jonah Graham <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 7:23 AM
>>>>> To: january developer discussions
>>>>> Cc: Smith, Robert W.
>>>>> Subject: Re: [january-dev] Newbie using January
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jay,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we need for now to get to a working January and then build up.
>>>>> I am glad to hear that Robert is close, and when it is ready it should
>>>>> be submitted. But at the moment the January project is suffering
>>>>> because of these outstanding issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe anyone is talking about re-hashing old issues. simply
>>>>> getting January to the point we have all agreed on. At the moment the
>>>>> code in January does not meet that requirement so we keep
>>>>> meta-rehashing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jonah
>>>>>
>>>>> ~~~
>>>>> Jonah Graham
>>>>> Kichwa Coders Ltd.
>>>>> www.kichwacoders.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19 January 2017 at 12:17, Jay Jay Billings
>>>>> <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even though there were very good reasons to include the form and
>>>>>> geometry
>>>>>> bundles from the beginning, I regret that everyone keeps forgetting or
>>>>>> ignoring those reasons and that these bundles keep causing trouble for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> community. Robert Smith did, in fact, just switch ICE and EAVP over to
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> January, but he is still testing in a branch and hasn't merged those
>>>>>> changes
>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't mind continuing to fix the form and geometry bundles to keep
>>>>>> them in
>>>>>> January because that only makes them better and helps the project, in
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> opinion. However, at this point I an not keen on continuing to rehash
>>>>>> old
>>>>>> arguments about why we wanted a general purpose data structures
>>>>>> project
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Science because I think it is unhealthy. I would much rather let the
>>>>>> January
>>>>>> Project Leads and committers make the decision on where the project
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jonah and Peter, I leave it to you at this point to either accept
>>>>>> Matt's PR,
>>>>>> removing the parts of January that ICE and EAVP currently need, or
>>>>>> simply
>>>>>> closing it and asking Robert and I to clean up our mess, including
>>>>>> addressing issues described in the second and fourth paragraph of
>>>>>> Torkild's
>>>>>> email. I'll happily support either path.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jay
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 5:48 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks! :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jonah Graham
>>>>>>> Sent: 19 January 2017 10:46
>>>>>>> To: january developer discussions
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [january-dev] Newbie using January
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Later I propose to put a build hook on the pull request. This is
>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>> by asking for admin from eclipse webmaster and adding the hook on
>>>>>>>> github. The build appears to be maven, so there are various options
>>>>>>>> for that in github J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The build hook for travis is already enabled, just needs the travis
>>>>>>> file
>>>>>>> contributing AFAIK.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jay Jay Billings
>>>>>> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>>>>>> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>>>>>>
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