Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Get clarity on process for obtaining consen

[Scott Stark <starksm64@xxxxxxxxx>]

Our major concern is that there should be some evidence of adoption by
vendors and/or a request for support from a platform/profile
implementation. There should be less latitude for the platform and
profile specifications then for the creation of Jakarta
specifications. There is a support burden that needs to have some
evidence of usage to justify the additional work to implement and
certify.

Our view is that new specifications should have an extensive
independent release cycle that results in users clamoring for their
adoption (in WildFly in our case) before we entertain a +1 vote.

In terms of the mechanics of deciding, a discussion with a vote on the
platform dev list seems in order. There needs to be some level of
justification from the component specification team in the ballot
materials as to why they think the specification is ready for
inclusion in the platform.

On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 5:40 PM Edward Burns via
jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> This is a question to Ivar, but I'm sending it to the list for maximum transparency. Anyone is free to reply.
>
>
>
> I looked to the platform-dev archive for precedent on how previous release co-coordinators performed this task.
>
> In EE 9, I see Steve Millidge had this thread:
>
> He started with one email that spawned two threads https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg00837.html
>
> Specs pruned
> Specs added https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg00839.html VOTE: Specifications to add in Jakarta EE 9
>
> He asked for +1, 0, -1.
> He did actually track the vote.
>
> He had to defend the process by which he conducted the vote and discussion https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg01108.html "
> The project committers of the Jakarta EE platform are making decisions in good faith. I think it is unfair to say we are not considering carefully the pros and cons. We have to move forward and decide what is in Jakarta EE 9 in a timely fashion in order to actually have a Jakarta EE 9 release. The emails here and the votes are the process whereby we solicit that input."
>
> There was a lot of discussion about JAX-B and JAX-WS being included.
> In the end, no new specs were added.
>
> In EE 9.1, there were no similar discussions
> In EE 10, there were no similar discussions.
>
> Given this cursory research, I have some questions. Please feel free to reply with in-line annotations.
>
> How much latitude do I have as release co-coordinator in conducting the discussions and deciding on new specs to add to EE 11?
> I know the tradition of using +1, 0, -1 votes cast via email is old and venerable.  And I hate it. May I please use a proper voting tool? Perhaps something from https://fairvote.org/resources/rcv-applications-and-ballot-tools/ ?  I like the look of https://www.rcv123.org/
> I am not aware of any specs to be pruned for EE 11. Is that correct?
>
>
>
> Finally, here is my proposal for how I want to conduct new spec discussion and decision. For each of the potential new specs (MVC, Data, JNoSQL)
>
> Start a time-bound DISCUSS thread on the list. I suggest 14 days.
> At the end of the DISCUSS thread, send new emails to point to the chosen ranked choice polling tool to conduct the ballots. I plan to have two ballots, in sequence, that allow voters to rank their desired choices.
>
> In/Out for all possible combinations of MVC, Data, JNoSQL, without regard to which platform spec they will go into.
> With the winners from the In/Out ballot, another ballot that determines what platform spec they will go into.
> I'll let the voting go for one week.
>
> I look forward to hearing from Ivar, and anyone else who cares to reply. But mostly from Ivar.
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
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