[
Date Prev][
Date Next][
Thread Prev][
Thread Next][
Date Index][
Thread Index]
[
List Home]
Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Code of conduct
|
To be honest, I am not quite sure what
to make of this, but maybe there is something worthwhile and
helpful I can share here as someone that does believe in the
importance of both codes of conduct and Jakarta EE.
In my view, the Contributor Covenant is
a very good code of conduct. Eclipse Foundation aside, we decided
to adopt it a few years ago for the Jakarta EE Ambassadors for all
the right and unfortunately necessary reasons:
https://jakartaee-ambassadors.io/code-of-conduct/. As is outlined
for the Jakarta EE Ambassadors, it really all comes down to what
one is able to enforce in a reasonable, fair, balanced and good
faith manner. When I have personally asked about such issues
offline, it is clear the Eclipse Foundation takes these matters
very seriously. If one in good faith and sound judgement really
does believe there is an issue to be resolved, I would perhaps
consider Mike's advice in following up with the outlined
enforcement body before suggesting too many other large scale
changes.
I would urge some due care and effort,
however. In particular, I think it is best to explore all other
reasonable options either with an organization or person before
taking a path that might be ultimately unnecessary and counter
productive. One reasonable approach is to have an offline chat. If
it's a person, that's rather easy I think. For an organization if
it really is a pervasive, persistent and intractable problem that
cannot be solved at the individual level, I don't think it is that
hard to find an official channel such as corporate human
resources. Whatever one does, I think patience and persistence in
trying to solve things offline and amicably is necessary even if
difficult or uncomfortable. It is possible that this effort may
even help provide a different perspective on the issue.
I will say though, that we do seem to
somehow devolve quickly to unnecessary emotional elements in
discussions directly or indirectly related to MicroProfile
alignment. There are many things that worry me about the whole
Java EE/Java open standards transition but this is the observation
that has bothered me the most for quite a few months now. We
really do need to return to a point where we can discuss
legitimate and difficult issues in a open, fair, inclusive fashion
without emotions getting involved so quickly and so overtly. I do
hope we get there soon.
Crossing my fingers that the above
thoughts are received in the spirit that it is being provided.
Reza Rahman
Jakarta EE Ambassador, Author, Blogger, Speaker
Please note views expressed here are my own as an individual
community member and do not reflect the views of my employer.
On 4/13/2020 3:00 PM, Werner Keil
wrote:
In certain areas Eclipse Foundation so far has less
strict rules e.g. when it comes to attendance in Jakarta EE
committees (those in the JCP familiar with the EC remember, you
lose your voting rights if you don't participate for a longer
time) and even the nomination for those committees are guided by
a "Gentleman's Agreement" that committers who are employed by
another member company should not run as committer member so
individual members of the community can also get a seat in each
committee. This doesn't always see the case in the board btw.
just to mention it.
Since MP plans to create a separate WG adding any of that
to Jakarta EE WG only seems bloated because you'd end up
having to apply something similar there again. As Mike
mentioned, there is an Eclipse Code of Conduct which seems to
have worked for most WGs even those that no longer exist now.
Thanks
for the response Mike, and the pointers. I'd like to clarify
that I'm not proposing changing the code of conduct that
applies to
Eclipse as a whole. What I am proposing is twofold:
additional rules
of conduct and remedial tools specific to Jakarta along the
lines of
what I've outlined above for the reasons I've already given,
and also
an explicit endorsement and affirmation from those within the
relevant
Jakarta group(s) expressing that the code of conduct and the
consequent ethical implications are in fact something that is
core to
the Jakarta community and will be actively applied on a day to
day
basis. I believe that neither of these things requires any
intervention by the Board, but if I'm incorrect about that,
please let
me know.
I generally won't plea for a more professional tone. In my
view,
professionalism and seriousness are mutually necessary, and
Jakarta
will be ultimately dysfunctional if either are lacking. As I
am not
required by my employer to contribute to Jakarta EE, I (and, I
presume, other would-be contributors) have the luxury of
simply
disinvolving myself if I feel that the quality of governance
does not
meet (or attempt to meet) my own personal professional and/or
ethical
standards. But, I feel I would be remiss if I didn't at least
make
some gesture in that direction as opposed to simply walking
away, thus
my note.
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 12:26 PM Mike Milinkovich
<mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> David,
>
> Thanks for this note, as it raises some important topics.
>
> The Eclipse Foundation Code of Conduct applies to all
activities held under the auspices of this organization. This
clearly includes Jakarta EE. This document has been reviewed
and approved by the Board of Directors, and adopting an
alternative would require the same level of review and
approval. If you have specific revisions to propose, you
should discuss them with Red Hat's director and have her bring
them forward to our Board. (I am happy to provide an
introduction if necessary.)
>
> If you have a specific concern that needs to be raised, I
would encourage you to use the enforcement mechanisms
described in the existing policy.
>
> If this is intended to be a general plea for a more
gentle and professional tone in discussions, that is always
welcome.
>
> On 2020-04-13 11:22 a.m., David Lloyd wrote:
>
> The Eclipse Foundation has a Community Code of Conduct
[1] that one
> would assum also covers Jakarta. But given recent
discussions, I
> (speaking just as a community member) would propose that
it would be
> greatly beneficial to the Jakarta community and brand if
Jakarta
> itself were to specifically adopt an official code of
conduct (the
> Eclipse one or a more specific one) which governs the
experts as well
> as the community.
>
> I would suggest that the following areas be covered by
such a code:
>
> * Behavior (being respectful, accepting responsibility,
honesty,
> empathy, safety)
> * Content (clarifying objective vs subjective language,
being concise
> and rigorous, avoiding hyperbole and "argument
strategies")
> * Remedy (what to do in case of violations, how to
correct problems,
> how to deal with mistakes)
>
> The behavior area I consider to be what a traditional
"project" code
> of conduct (such as Contributor Covenant, the existing
Eclipse Code of
> Conduct or similar) would normally cover. This would
cover
> unacceptable behavior such as abuse, harassment,
trolling, personal
> attacks, etc.
>
> Jakarta strives to generate specifications. This is more
involved,
> difficult, and complex than many "normal" open source
projects that
> one might find on Eclipse or elsewhere. Because of the
special needs
> of specifications - particularly, the role of clear,
concise, and
> rigorously correct language in a coherent specification -
I would
> propose that clear content and communication is also an
area of
> conduct that should be covered. Just as we must all work
a bit harder
> to respect one another, we must also work a bit harder to
be precise
> in our language, in order to provide the best
specifications possible.
>
> Imprecise language goes over the line into misconduct
when opinions
> are asserted as though they were facts, hyperbolic or
bombastic
> statements are made to maximize emotional impact, or
broad
> generalizations or other logically fallacious statements
are used
> deliberately to derail constructive discussion. When
developing a
> specification - which is by nature required to be as
objective as
> possible - these kinds of machinations can disrupt or
undermine what
> may already be a very difficult endeavor.
>
> Finally, a remedial path is necessary because, as humans,
all of us
> have (and will) make mistakes. The code should outline a
path not
> only for the spec committee and other official structures
to cope with
> problems, but also for those community members who have
in fact found
> themselves in violation of the code, so that they
understand how to
> make amends and avoid lingering resentment, which can
have a
> detrimental long term effect on the community. Many such
strategies
> can be found in typical autism behavior programs, but are
(in my
> opinion) actually quite useful for any person who finds
themselves on
> the wrong side of a behavioral problem and are unsure
what to do. In
> particular, there seems to be credible evidence that
"zero tolerance"
> policies neither deter nor repair undesirable behavior.
>
> Having a comprehensive code of conduct which is
consistently applied
> is, in my opinion, a necessary feature of a serious
specification body
> in this decade. I believe that the lack of a CoC
covering these areas
> is a deterrent to participation. I know that it is a
deterrent to me,
> at any rate.
>
> [1] https://www.eclipse.org/org/documents/Community_Code_of_Conduct.php
>
>
> --
>
> Mike Milinkovich
>
> Executive Director | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.
>
> mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> @mmilinkov
>
> +1.613.220.3223 (m)
>
> _______________________________________________
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list
> jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
--
- DML
_______________________________________________
jakarta.ee-community mailing list
jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
_______________________________________________
jakarta.ee-community mailing list
jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community