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Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [Open Feedback] to this Community via Twitter
Hola Wayne, 

The timing of THIS update is most valuable and surely appreciated by many impacted. 
 Is there a tweet we can help broadcast via our channels that has your blog? 

Seeing this fix be done via this forum channel, with +40 follow-ups within a single thread, hopefully increases everyone's trust that our voices are needed for betterment! 

Wishing everyone a great wknd ahead, you can tell by this follow up that I am thankful to everyone involved- beautiful DOERS!  




On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 1:42 PM Wayne Beaton <wayne.beaton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
We've closed the hole. The new Employer Consent Agreement for Eclipse Foundation Specification Projects ("Employer Consent Agreement" or just "Consent Agreement") fills in the missing piece. This new agreement needs to be signed by your employer (somebody with authority to sign on behalf of the organization).

I wrote a blog post that describes this. I'm also putting the finishing touches on a new "Specification Projects" section for the Eclipse Project Handbook that describes this and other aspects of specification development under the EFSP (coming soon).

Here's a quote from the blog post.

If you work for an Eclipse Foundation member company but that company is not a participant in the working group, or you work for a company that is not a member of the Eclipse Foundation at all, then you need to sign the individual working group participation agreement (IWGPA), and your employer needs to sign the Employer Consent Agreement for Eclipse Foundation Specification Projects (which we shorten to "Employer Consent Agreement" or just "Consent Agreement). 

The blog post includes a chart to help you understand what agreements are required under what conditions.

The EMO's Committer Agreements process (also referred to as the "Committer Paperwork" process) is mostly automated. If you are not already a committer and are successfully elected to join an Eclipse open source software or specification project team, you will be contacted by the EMO Records Team by email to engage in our agreement workflow which guides you through signing those agreements that you need. Please don't send us documents unless we ask for them. I'll take the opportunity to reinforce that you need to first be nominated and elected by the project committers to become a committer yourself.

Representatives from the EMO Records Team will be reaching out to the handful of committers that we know to have been impacted by this. If you haven't heard from us in about a week, or have any questions, please let me know via email to emo@xxxxxxxxxxx. 

Note that, if you are currently a committer who is able to do all of the sorts of things that committers should be able to do (i.e., if you can, as a committer, push to your project's repositories), then you're good-to-go. 

Also note, that you don't need committer status to contribute. To contribute, sign the Eclipse Contributor Agreement (ECA) and start making pull-requests. When you establish a pattern of providing high-quality contributions to the project, the committers should nominate you to join their ranks.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Wayne


On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:21 AM Wayne Beaton <wayne.beaton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Drat. Yes. 

The Eclipse Foundation agrees that you should NOT have to pay to contribute to, or become a committer on, an open source specification project.

Career limiting quote of the day...

Wayne 

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:15 AM Jonathan Gallimore <jgallimore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks for the update Wayne.

> The Eclipse Foundation agrees that you should have to pay to contribute to, or become a committer on, an open source specification project. 

Is that a typo? "Did you mean The Eclipse Foundation agrees that you should *not* have to pay to contribute to, or become a committer on, an open source specification project."? My perception is that neither Romain, nor his employer will need to pay anything when this is sorted out.

Thanks

Jon

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 4:05 PM Wayne Beaton <wayne.beaton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Creating specifications in open source is different from creating software in open source. As Steve stated (paraphrasing), the primary difference is in how patent right grants flow. This is why we have extra agreements that need to be signed.

We have never had a requirement that anybody pay to contribute to, or become a committer on an Eclipse Foundation open source project. 

The extra agreements had a side effect that we didn't think of in the corner case where the employer is a member but will not sign the Member Committer Agreement or the Working Group Participation Agreement. I don't know how, specifically, Eclipse Foundation staff communicated the fee issue, but I do know that behind the scenes they recognised the problem and brought it to the attention of the Eclipse Foundation management team. The Jakarta EE Steering Committee minutes should reflect that the steering committee identified the problem at around the same time and started working with the Eclipse Foundation to sort out a solution. Clearly, this should have been communicated more broadly.

The Eclipse Foundation agrees that you should have to pay to contribute to, or become a committer on, an open source specification project. 

We are solving this problem. I am hopeful that we will have a path forward soon.

A small number of committer accounts were disabled (not retired) due to issues with absent paperwork; this had nothing to do with fees. These accounts will be enabled when we have the path forward sorted out.

Wayne


On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 10:10 AM reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
There should be no problem other than seeking permission from your employer if your employer is not an Eclipse Foundation member. This is an issue currently only if your employer is an Eclipse Foundation member. As I understand it, the issue goes back to keeping IP flows clean. However, I am not a lawyer. The right person from the Eclipse Foundation should really help clarify.

The way things work in the US, I am pretty sure there will never be a way of getting around getting explicit employer permission.

Reza Rahman
Jakarta EE Ambassador, Author, Blogger, Speaker

Please note views expressed here are my own as an individual community member and do not reflect the views of my employer.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Theodor Augustin Dumitrescu <th.theodor.th@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 1/29/20 6:50 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: Jakarta EE community discussions <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [Open Feedback] to this Community via Twitter

Hi Folks,

I'm new therefore I can't say too much about the hole process.

However, I would like to stress that I too am having problems because of this situation. At the moment I am interviewing to move into a new company and my contribution derives from my interest in Jakarta.
Honestly it seems absurd to me that I have to say to a future employer during an interview "I am contributing to Jakarta EE and therefore I need you to start paying so that I can continue to do it".

Wouldn't it be possible to add within the ECA an entry such as "I confirm that my contribution is in no way influenced by my situation worked or by my employer"?

From Steve's message I understand that I could contribute if for example I use my computer and my internet connection to avoid the IP problem (for example using the mobile phone's hotspot).


Il giorno mer 29 gen 2020 alle ore 15:26 reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> ha scritto:
I would be interested to know which projects you had issued feature requests to. With the focus on completing the transfer and accomplishing the rebranding, lack of action on new features is understandable.

However, this should be changing soon as the Jakarta EE 9 work commences, especially if you are able to commit to making feature enhancements yourself. At least beginning to engage the projects is certainly a commendable start and I would like to try to support you once I had a bit more context.

Reza Rahman
Jakarta EE Ambassador, Author, Blogger, Speaker

Please note views expressed here are my own as an individual community member and do not reflect the views of my employer.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Mihai A." <amihaiemil@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 1/29/20 5:13 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: Jakarta EE community discussions <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [Open Feedback] to this Community via Twitter

Now I understand why the tickets I open to various related projects get no answer and nobody seems really interested in them,
Talking about feature requests, not necessarily bugs. 

Cool story.

Br,
Mihai

On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 at 15:10, Mark Struberg <struberg@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Talked with him.
Romain now works for a company which has signed up on a low level Eclipse membership since ages.
But their 'tier' doesn't qualify for having someone work on an EG or working group it seems.
So EF seemingly asked his company management to 'upgrade' their account and pay FU****NG 10k just for Romain to be able to continue to contribute. And then they suspended all his Eclipse committership alltogether.

Hell, this is SOOO WRONG on soo many levels. We should be freaking happy to have people like Romain continue to contribute to and support Jakarta EE. But instead his company gets ripped off?
I mean, this is really odd. This is pure pay to play and a shame for calling itself Open Source!

Dear Eclipse leadership. JakartaEE needs people like Romain. JakartaEE needs other OSS foundations, JakartaEE actually needs the all the community you can get!

JakartaEE is not a standard Eclipse project - don't wreck it!

LieGrue,
strub


> Am 28.01.2020 um 22:25 schrieb Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> What actually was the trigger for Romain's statement?
> -Markus
>
>
> Von: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Kevin Sutter
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Januar 2020 21:04
> An: Jakarta EE community discussions
> Betreff: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [Open Feedback] to this Community via Twitter
>
> Romain is entitled to his opinion, but I don't agree with it.
>
> I belong to and have participated in both foundations -- Eclipse and Apache.  Yes, they are different.  They both have quirks.  But, I do not agree with posting something like this and asking for a discussion.  At least not on the Jakarta EE Community forum.  We should focus on Jakarta EE issues and questions, and not opinions about the Eclipse Foundation.  My two cents worth...
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Kevin Sutter
> STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect @ IBM
> e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
> phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)   
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
>
>
>
> From:        Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To:        Jakarta EE Community <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date:        01/28/2020 13:31
> Subject:        [EXTERNAL] [jakarta.ee-community] [Open Feedback] to this Community via Twitter
> Sent by:        jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Hello from Las Vegas Jakartees,
>
> with reference to this Tweet
>
> <image001.png>
> If Romain's statements are true,  why are they true?
>
> Amelia Eiras
> twitter.com/ameliaeiras
> Tribe: http://tomitribe.com      https://tribestream.io   
> OSS:  http://microprofile.io     https://jakarta.ee_______________________________________________
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list
> jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list
> jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community

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--

Wayne Beaton

Director of Open Source Projects | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.

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Director of Open Source Projects | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.

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