| Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] The Opportunity |
On 20 Mar 2016, at 1:09, Doug Schaefer wrote:
Yes, thanks Tyler for your detailed write up. It definitely helps us
understand where you are coming from.At the moment, I only have one question I guess. We we've been talking here
and on the Twittersphere about the recently release Stack Overflow
Developer Survey and its section on Development environments. For
reference, the results are here:http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#technology-development-environments
Just one comment here - that survey looks so completely foobar it hurts.
The OS stats goes against every other stat available on this area.
If OSX really is 26% of their users then its weird 35% prefer a Windows only dev environment (Visual Studio).
Unless stack overflow would also publish the actual OS usage stats they track I seriously
distrust that survey.
/max
We were actually quite pleased to see Eclipse still used by 23% of survey's
respondents, ahead of IntelliJ though it's hard to tell once you factor in
Android Studio. It was also interesting to note the popularity of text
editors in this survey along with the top desktop IDEs. It appears from
this survey that developers are still very focused, if not exclusively, on
development on their desktops.I was wondering, what factors you are seeing that will cause such a
tectonic shift in developer behavior that they will start using web IDEs in
the huge numbers you have mentioned. I understand the vision and the
marketing, I'm just wondering how it will manifest itself on the ground.Thanks!
Doug.On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Jay Jay Billings jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx
wrote:Tyler,
Thanks for the email. I'm very glad you reached out to us. Could you
clarify a few things for me?1.) What is your plan to make Che easier to install and run? I hear enough
complaints about installing Eclipse, and installing Che is, relatively
speaking, much harder. To wit, 5k downloads per day does not mean 5k new
users per day, and to truly capitalize on your momentum you need to make
sure you hook people quickly with a fast, smooth install process.2.) Do you plan to provide extensive documentation on extending Che and to
support the many members of the community that would like to build training
services around Che?3.) Do you plan to support hybrid configurations where the Che server and
workspace are used via SSH through the Eclipse IDE? You mentioned this
several times in your talk, but I am curious to what degree you will
support it as one way to use Che.4.) What level of compatibility and reuse is available for RCP plugins
with Che? For example, how much of JDT were you able to reuse? CDT? WTP?Thanks again for taking the time to write to us. I'm sure others will have
questions too and your openness is greatly appreciated.Jay
On Mar 19, 2016 15:50, "Tyler Jewell" tyler@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:At last week's EclipseCon, we had a public unveiling of Eclipse Che.
Generally, the engagement and support has been substantial. There have
been some concerns stated around the marketing tactics used by the project
and potential confusion that this creates around the future of other
projects within the Eclipse Foundation.Here is my position.
Codenvy is completely committed to the Eclipse Foundation. Not Eclipse
Che, but the Eclipse Foundation. Codenvy has a unique business strategy
where Eclipse's universal success leads to commercial success for Codenvy.
There are not many companies that can make this sort of statement about
their relationship with an open source foundation.Our relationship is one where we believe that 80% of Eclipse technology
users are ultimately employees within organizations that we want to sell
to. Growing the reach of Eclipse technology from 5M to 20M users is an
essential part of our strategy.From our humble beginnings 4 years ago, we always intended to take an
open source strategy. We knew that ecosystem is the lifeblood of commercial
opportunities, and we had aspirations to establish community that mirrored
Eclipse's success. Open source is the only way to achieve this.Eclipse was not our first open source channel. We originally targeted the
Apache Foundation because of the perceived lock-in of the Eclipse IDE at
the Eclipse Foundation. We had made light overtures from time to time, but
Eclipse Foundation's identity was intimately tied to a single product that
could perceive our initiatives as a threat. It was the accidental and
thoughtful dialog with key IBM engineers that opened doors with Mike's
management team where the first signs of openness were expressed. That was
over 2 years ago.The first year of our membership was an uncomfortable scenario where we
had to perform significant engineering, to explore various positioning,
learn how to operate in the open, and figure out how to overcome the
built-in advantages afforded the Eclipse IDE while honoring its history.At the same time, the Eclipse Foundation and the IDE itself suffered
perception issues in the market. I honor everyone that bleeds the
Eclipse IDE. It is a lifetime labor of love for those involved. Those
involved deserve medals for their efforts. Though, as an organization, we
cannot turn a blind eye to the market perception - the IDE was losing
market share, and market sentiment had turned negative.When this happens, incremental product improvements alone cannot change
momentum. Momentum is altered by changing the market dynamics. To attract
more developers to Eclipse, Eclipse needed to have an identity makeover
that attaches it to "modern" & "innovative" criteria. The working group
and technology initiatives related to IOT and location tech are helpful,
but the organization was publicly thought of as purely an IDE organization.So we had to tackle the IDE perception issue directly. We felt that we
needed to change the market dynamics from 3 products (netbeans, intellij,
eclipse) to 4 (+che).Eclipse Orion started down this path - but as the product narrowed its
scope, its market perception became tied closer to web-technologies and web
editing. Also, while a couple years ago we attemped to create a
consolidated Eclipse Cloud Dev roadmap around a single vision, this
consolidation did not occur.In the summer of 2015, after our 3rd rewrite in 4 years of the kernel, we
saw technology for the first time that gave us confidence that we could
satisfy the essentials for generating a new platform: a) extensible to the
same degree as Eclipse, b) responsive with performance that would surprise
and amaze, c) design that was professional, and d) configuration with
docker such that workspace portability could really be solved. We were
convinced that we had solved the "innovative" criteria.We just needed to solve the "modern" criteria.
Unfortunately, Google's adoption of JetBrains had accelerated the
negative perception problem. There was a perception debt that also had to
be paid down. Also, in the past 2 years, most of our positioning exercises
had attached to cloud development - and that story just fell flat. We
needed something more significant.We recognized that the only way to grow the overall Eclpise community was
to position in such a way where there was a story of the future, but also
neutralized the realities that exist with negative perception.The next-generation positioning combined with a story on fundamental
problems faced by all workstation-based IDEs proved to be a magical
combination. It was the right story as it allowed us to package a
forward-looking story. We did not have to be a dirty politician by
attacking individual products, though we have no problem reminding the
community that JetBrains is not truly open source.That story has hit a nerve and there is significant engagement and
adoption. I have provided the event summary below. Important to me - we are
seeing about 75 GitHub issues posted / week, and about 10% of all pull
requests are coming from non-committers. Just this week, Codenvy executed
an agreement with a F100 IOT provider to build an embedded IDE for their
devices based upon Che - it will be on display at a keynote in May and has
potential reach to 10M people over 20 years.This is substantial and meaningful for the Eclipse IDE:
1. The community at large does not make the distinction between the
pockets of people who work on the Eclipse IDE or Eclipse Che. They just
presume that we are all Eclipse people. We are, aren't we? The community
believes that the people that brought them the Eclipse IDE is bringing them
Che. This halo affect will create larger interest and immediacy in people's
adoption of the Eclipse IDE. There are organizations that Codenvy is
working with that were considering JetBrains purchases that are now
reconsidering open source. Questions that rise about future investment in
Eclipse IDE are simply answered with communication and a roadmap.
Our vision is more substantial than a portable workspace. We are
moving into an era where developers care more about maintaining their right
to choose their tools than following the corporate standard. At the same
time, corporations desire team-based productivity enhancements, governance
controls, and securing the devops workflow. Some of these problems can be
solved on the edge device, and some can be solved in the server room. Each
organization will have a bias as to whether their developer services
(intellisense, development workflow, test environments, etc) should reside
on each developer's machine or within the workgroup. So let's let them
have their choice. The way we achieve that choice is to let enterprises
choose their preferred tool and make interoperability between local
services and remote services. We are the only organization positioned to
deliver on this vision - where intellisense, test runtimes, tooling stacks
can float between the server and the desktop, giving the developer their
choice of preferred tool: desktop IDE, browser IDE, or other. The momentum
of Che combined with Eclipse's existing base makes us the only vendor that
could plausibly pursue this. And this creates substantial commercial
opportuntiies for each of our companies since the workspace workflow is the
only component that is integrated into version control, issue management,
and continuous integration. Leading on this front lets our organizations
lead more ambitiously on continuous delivery + devops.This momentum provides confidence to Codenvy's investors that there is
a future, large commercial opportunity. Investors like to chase growth, and
that perception historically does not exist with IDEs. With Codenvy's
marketing budget approaching $1M and 80% of it dedicated to Eclipse-related
engagement, I am not sure there is any other single company that is
spending as much to promote Eclipse technologies. With investors focused on
growth, as Codenvy demonstrates commercial viability, there is no reason
that our marketing budget doesn't follow an exponential curve. This
strategy allows us to pursue a business plan that excites potential
investors, which leads to more investment dollars directly channeled into
areas that benefit Eclipse.For those organizations represented here that have had their marketing
departments slow their sponsorship of Eclipse initiatives, the current
marketing environment is an amazing opportunity to attach themselves to a
growth wave that will fundamentally change the nature of development within
enterprises for the next two decades. I am happy to share with each and
every one of your marketing departments why this opportunity is significant
and how their historical investments and enhanced future investment can be
directly beneficial to their enterprise sales objectives.I believe our opportunity is to bring our projects closer together,
establish Eclipse brand as innovative and modern, and to provide a vision
of confidence to software development teams that we are collectively
working on making their lives better.Tyler
Keynote
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/eclipse-che-eclipsecon-2016?utm_source=infoq&utm_medium=videos_homepage&utm_campaign=videos_row1
SAP: 23:40
Red Hat: 28:20
IBM: 36:30
Microsoft: 43:45Momentum:
- 250K views to Che site
- 2k tweets
- 1000 additional github stars added to our repo - we are in the upper 1%
of all github repos
- ~5K downloads / day of Eclipse CheeWeek
Eclipse Snags Microsoft, Lauches Che IDE for the Cloud
http://www.eweek.com/developer/eclipse-snags-microsoft-launches-che-ide-for-the-cloud-2.htmlIDG News / PC World / InfoWorld
Codenvy Teams with Microsoft to Help Developers Work Together
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3041894/codenvy-teams-with-microsoft-to-help-developers-work-together.htmlSD Times
EclipseCon Kicks off with Che Release
http://sdtimes.com/eclipsecon-kicks-off-with-che-release/The Next Web
Eclipse Che is a Cloud-Based IDE that wants to reimagine how developers
work
http://thenextweb.com/dd/2016/03/08/eclipse-che-cloud-based-ide-teams-developers-may-fall/#grefReturn GIS
Eclipse Che on Microsoft Azure
https://www.returngis.net/2016/03/eclipse-che-en-microsoft-azure/InfoQ
Eclipse Foundation releases next-generation IDE, Eclipse Che 4.0
http://www.infoq.com/news/2016/03/eclipse-che-releaseTechcrunch
Microsoft joins the open source Eclipse Foundation
http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/08/microsoft-joins-the-open-source-eclipse-foundation/The New Stack
Eclipse Che: Portable shared development workspaces with built-in runtimes
http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/08/microsoft-joins-the-open-source-eclipse-foundation/Enterprise Times
SAP lures developers with Eclipse Che IDE
http://www.enterprisetimes.co.uk/2016/03/10/sap-lures-developers-eclipse-che-ide/IT Business Edge
Eclipse Che IDE for the cloud enjoys broad support
http://www.itbusinessedge.com/blogs/it-unmasked/eclipse-che-ide-for-the-cloud-enjoys-broad-support.htmlArs Technica
Microsoft joins the Eclipse Foundation, open sources some of its plugins
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/microsoft-joins-the-eclipse-foundation-open-sources-some-of-its-plugins/BetaNews
Codenvy and Microsoft streamline the developer workspace
http://betanews.com/2016/03/08/codenvy-and-microsoft-streamline-the-developer-workspace/WinBeta
Microsoft announces it is joining the open source Eclipse Foundation
http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-announces-joining-open-source-eclipse-foundationTyler Jewell | CEO | tyler@codenvy.com | 978.884.5355
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