Yes I was not saying jdt team wasn't hard a work - just that they worked very hard alone because of the license issue :) /max
Hi Max
We are already working on the feature
patch for Java 9, and hopefully we can start to offer a first version around
the release of Mars.
In JDT's defence I would like to mention
the following facts:
- The feature patches were available
before Kepler SR2 and we provided full and official support for Kepler
SR2 when Java 8 GAed on March 18, 2014 [1]. From then on Java 8 support
was part of the normal Luna builds, allowing the community and upstream
projects to adopt and test the stuff. Therefore I don't think it was completely
untested when we shipped Luna in June.
- For us it was not business as usual:
especially the Lambda support was a huge effort, and major changes to the
compiler were needed.
- We had clear plans and ramp-down phases
to get to the Java 8 GA, so, from JDT's POV it was not luck that we succeeded
;-). The mistake was that other projects were not part of that ramp-down
plan and that it was not coordinated. Something we should definitely change
for the Java 9 support.
Anyway, we agree in that we started
late with providing feature patches, and as written above, we're going
to change this for Java 9. And hopefully, Mike can even help us to get
away with those feature patches.
Dani
[1] https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00948.html
From:
"Max Rydahl Andersen"
<manderse@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
"Cross project
issues" <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date:
13.05.2015 12:27
Subject:
Re: [eclipse-pmc]
[cross-project-issues-dev] Proposed schedule for JDK 9
Sent by:
eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
On 12 May 2015, at 20:42, Carl Anderson wrote:
> Max,
>
> For
Kepler, WTP created a patch to allow for Java 8 usage. That
> patch worked hand-in-hand with the Platform's JDT patch that supported
> Java
> 8. Those were announced at the same time. Developers could
download
> and
> install those, and then use Java 8 to develop artifacts within WTP
on
> Eclipse Kepler. I would assume that the same would be true for
Java 9
> and
> Eclipse Mars.
These patches was made available the *same week* JDT when GA, right ?
There was *zero* releases available the many months before, right ?
Here is what I recall:
2013-2014:
Many months of Java 8 work solely in JDT and available only to those
able and with time to manually compile/build JDT. No projects in or
outside Eclipse could
actually start developing/testing against Java 8. Meanwhile Intellij and
Netbeans
users was on Java 8 just fine.
Early June 2014:
Java 8 made available in stock JDT.
WTP was not working with it. Neither was m2e.
WTP was done - Thanks Carl.
m2e was not going to happen, unless we (Fred and I from Red Hat) hadn't
stepped in
and done that work.
Mid-June 2014: A completely untested (outside of JDT) Java 8 release was
made that
more by chance than actually direction worked in WTP an m2e.
We (Eclipse) got *ALOT* of flag for not having Java 8 available. And we
still do.
My assumption is that this was even more reasons for users to leave to
another IDE.
...that said overall things worked out, but it was luck.
Especially since the diff (from a tool vendor pov) between
Java 7 and Java 8 is not that big. Sure, we had to get lambda support in
the language
but beyond that it was more or less business as usual.
With Java 9 - this is very different update.
The first one already lifted its head - change in how class loaders
work.
Next is the module system, classes always available is not there
anymore, no tools.jar anymore, possible talks about multi-versioned
jars,
memory flags now failing start of your app instead of just being
resilient ignored.
These things will have a *massive* impact on how plugins and users will
need to interact with
Java compared to previous versions.
If we expect to be able to dump Java 9 support into JDT and expect all
plugins and users setup "just work"
as done with Java 7 to Java 8 then I think we are being rather naive.
And because of these changes being rather intrusive into IDE's we are
again looking at
something that will make it even more relevant for users and heck, even
plugin developers to go
look at intellij and netbeans to actually start work with Java 9.
So yeah, I think it would be disastrous if we cannot find a way to get
earlier Java 9 support
into JDT and the eco-system before the official GA of Java 9.
/max
> FWIW,
>
> - Carl Anderson
> WTP Build guy
>
>
>
> From:
"Max Rydahl Andersen" <manderse@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To:
eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc:
Cross project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date:
05/12/2015 02:27 PM
> Subject:
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] [eclipse-pmc] Proposed
> schedule
> for JDK 9
> Sent by:
cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> On 12 May 2015, at 13:07, Daniel Megert wrote:
>
>> The licenses haven't changed.
>
> Afaik EclipseLink releases from Eclipse.org under same license earlier
> or is that wrong ?
>
>> This means as with Java 8, we will provide
>> feature patches that can be installed on top of 4.5.x.
>
> Made available from where ?
>
> How can projects like WTP use these ?
>
> /max
>
>
>>
>> Dani
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Max Rydahl Andersen" <manderse@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: Cross project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: 12.05.2015 12:12
>> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev]
[eclipse-pmc] Proposed
>> schedule for JDK 9
>> Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ICYMI, Java 9 is now releasing September 2016.
>>
>> I'm less worried about *running* Eclipse on Java 9 than I am about
>> supporting *developing* Java 9 apps *with* Eclipse.
>>
>> Any plans on avoiding the issue we had with Java 8 support not
being
>> available in Eclipse until actual Java 8 GA date ?
>>
>> Other IDE's already has some basic support for developing with
Java
>> 9.
>>
>> /max
>>
>>> Mike Milinkovich
>>> mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> +1.613.220.3223
>>> Original Message
>>> From: mark.reinhold@xxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:22 PM
>>> To: jdk9-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Proposed schedule for JDK 9
>>>
>>> Here is a proposed schedule for JDK 9:
>>>
>>> 2015-12-10 Feature Complete
>>> 2016-02-04 All Tests Run
>>> 2016-02-25 Rampdown Start
>>> 2016-04-21 Zero Bug Bounce
>>> 2016-06-16 Rampdown Phase 2
>>> 2016-07-21 Final Release Candidate
>>> 2016-09-22 General Availability
>>>
>>> The dates here are meant to leave sufficient time for broad
review
>>> and
>>> testing of the significant features of the release, in particular
>>> the
>>> introduction of a module system and the modularization of
the
>>> platform,
>>> while maintaining the cadence of shipping a major release
about
>>> every
>>> two years.
>>>
>>> The milestone definitions are the same as those for JDK 8
[1].
>>>
>>> Comments from JDK 9 Committers are welcome, as are reasoned
>>> objections.
>>> If no such objections are raised by 23:00 UTC next Tuesday,
12 May,
>>> or
>>> if they're raised and then satisfactorily answered, then per
the JEP
>>> 2.0
>>> process proposal [2] this will be adopted as the schedule
for JDK 9.
>>>
>>> (This information is also available on the JDK 9 Project Page
[3]).
>>>
>>> - Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk8/milestones#definitions
>>> [2] http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~mr/jep/jep-2.0-02.html
>>> [3] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk9/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
>>> unsubscribe from this list, visit
>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>
>>
>> /max
>> http://about.me/maxandersen
>> _______________________________________________
>> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list
>> cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
>> unsubscribe
>> from this list, visit
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> /max
> http://about.me/maxandersen
> _______________________________________________
> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list
> cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
> unsubscribe
> from this list, visit
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list
> cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
> unsubscribe from this list, visit
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
/max
http://about.me/maxandersen
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