I'm very sorry that you choose to see
this as a vandalism. Change is always difficult to manage; yet
if we refusing to accept it, we risk being left behind while our
surroundings evolve around us. We've been holding onto good-old
status quo for as long as we could. We must continue to evolve.
Collectively.
I think your energies would be better
invested in moving your projects forward. We can help, the
burden is not all on you, and we've stretched the timelines as
much as possible. You might be pleasantly surprised with the end
result.
Unfortunately, you've been plagued with
email issues for over a decade. Each time the EF IT team has
plowed through logs and have given you trace IDs to try to track
the issue at your provider. GitLab is talking to you. I don't
feel we can do any more here.
Denis
On 2022-04-19 05:54, Ed Willink wrote:
Hi
Sorry. This is vandalism. No other word for it. "action
involving deliberate destruction of or damage to public or
private property." I didn't call anyone in particular a
vandal since I do not know who / what is the underlying
motivating force for this madness.
Yes I'm frustrated and seriously considering quitting Eclipse
since the EF is pulling the rug out from facilities that I
considered sacrosanct.
No I can't use gitlab since gitlab doesn't talk to me.
Regards
Ed
On 19/04/2022 09:25, Ed Merks wrote:
Ed,
I want to suggest yet again to please have this
discussion on this issue rather than on this mailing list.
This way all the interested parties can partake in the
discussion and it will be recorded in one place rather than
threaded through this mailing list. Also, you will then see
how issues work (which is rather cool in my opinion) and you
will be able to comment in a more informed way about it.
I'd also strongly suggest omitting the emotional baggage from
the discussion because when you describe something as
'vandalism' it implies that there are vandals about. I'm very
sure that our fine, overworked, Eclipse-Foundation IT staff
will not appreciate that implication, nor suggestions that
there is craziness and madness involved.
Let's please be nice with one another, even when we are
frustrated...
Regards,
Ed
On 19.04.2022 10:08, Ed Willink
wrote:
Hi
A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables
craziness to be avoided.
So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to
issues?
Unfortunately I cannot participate on gitlab issues since
gitlab seems unable to send notifications to me. I am
excluded which may please many. I do not have the bandwidth
to keep a Firefox tab open on every gitlab issue I care
about and to poll them to see what has happened.
Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but
accept that this may be a necessary evil.
It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable
and a totally unjustified vandalism.
The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki +
old-Bugzilla option.
Regards
Ed Willink
On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks
wrote:
Ed,
The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and
wiki.eclipse.org was announced to all committers:
The platform has diligently migrated everything to
Github, so that's a done deal and will not be undone.
Certainly there are issues with issues, e.g., you can't
really move them between organizations, when an
organization has many repos, it's not so clear where to
open and issue, and how to search for issues across repos
and organizations isn't clear.
Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so
avoid the need to chase endless ripples?
While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and
wiki.eclipse.org might be necessary and a manageable
pain mitigated by redirects, terminating Bugzilla is
madness.
Bugzilla has been providing an invaluable to service to
the platform and JDT for over 20 years and as such is
THE record of many design decisions. The integrity of
this record should not lightly be discarded,
particularly given that Bugzilla is not EOL. Ok it is
not seeing much progress towards version 6, but to me
that just demonstrates that it is adequate. Proposed
replacements are far from adequate.
Eclipse is an aggregate of many projects and so we have
long encouraged users to report their bug making a best
guess at the correct product, sure in the knowledge that
it can be re-componented.
For instance https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_activity.cgi?id=578944
was recently plausibly raised as an EMF bug, but then
equally plausibly triaged as an OCL bug. Upon
investigation this was bounced back again to EMF with
the option to bounce further to platform. Bugzilla
supports this very cleanly.
Examination of Bug 99622 shows that although JDT bugs
have been moved to archive the active bugs have not yet
been migrated and that no moved notifications have been
sent.
It seems essential that ALL bugzillas from ALL
'platform' projects should be kept in the SAME search
space; Bugzilla provides this. Replacements do not. This
would seem to apply until some major disruption such as
"e5" may justify the new team starting a new bug train
for the new activity. Until then please keep e3 and e4
together.
For Modeling projects this is even more of an
imperative. Sadly Eclipse and World Modeling is dying so
the amount of new work in the next 20 years is likely to
be much less than that in the last twenty. It is
therefore crazy to split the dying embers off from their
predecessors. If/when some magic new team of well funded
enthusiasts comes along to pioneer EMF 3, then let them
too choose the appropriate bug platform for the new
initiative. For now please do not spend so much effort
vandalizing out past achievements and burning our
precious development resources.
Is there any long term Eclipse committer who actually
wants this Bugzilla vandalism?
Regards
Ed Willink
On 18/04/2022 00:51, Denis
Roy wrote:
We'll address the issue via
the HelpDesk issue below.
Agree though, we need some
redirects or links at the very least.
Denis
On 2022-04-17 12:21,
Stephan Herrmann wrote:
On
17.04.22 12:46, Ed Merks wrote:
The message could be improved
by redirecting here:
Anybody with a bookmark on bugs.eclipse.org or even https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi
will simply learn that JDT is no longer accepting bug
reports. End of story. I thought open source
development is all about communication. Never too old
to learn better. I'm glad I no longer feel responsible
for any of this, otherwise I'd have trouble avoiding
any bad words ...