| Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled., |
Ed,
I'm very sorry that you choose to see
this as a vandalism. Change is always difficult to manage; yet
if we refusing to accept it, we risk being left behind while our
surroundings evolve around us. We've been holding onto good-old
status quo for as long as we could. We must continue to evolve.
Collectively.
I think your energies would be better
invested in moving your projects forward. We can help, the
burden is not all on you, and we've stretched the timelines as
much as possible. You might be pleasantly surprised with the end
result.
Unfortunately, you've been plagued with
email issues for over a decade. Each time the EF IT team has
plowed through logs and have given you trace IDs to try to track
the issue at your provider. GitLab is talking to you. I don't
feel we can do any more here.
Denis
Hi
Sorry. This is vandalism. No other word for it. "action involving deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property." I didn't call anyone in particular a vandal since I do not know who / what is the underlying motivating force for this madness.
Yes I'm frustrated and seriously considering quitting Eclipse since the EF is pulling the rug out from facilities that I considered sacrosanct.
No I can't use gitlab since gitlab doesn't talk to me.
Regards
Ed
On 19/04/2022 09:25, Ed Merks wrote:
Ed,
I want to suggest yet again to please have this discussion on this issue rather than on this mailing list.
https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678
This way all the interested parties can partake in the discussion and it will be recorded in one place rather than threaded through this mailing list. Also, you will then see how issues work (which is rather cool in my opinion) and you will be able to comment in a more informed way about it.
I'd also strongly suggest omitting the emotional baggage from the discussion because when you describe something as 'vandalism' it implies that there are vandals about. I'm very sure that our fine, overworked, Eclipse-Foundation IT staff will not appreciate that implication, nor suggestions that there is craziness and madness involved.
Let's please be nice with one another, even when we are frustrated...
Regards,
Ed
On 19.04.2022 10:08, Ed Willink wrote:
Hi
A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables craziness to be avoided.
So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to issues?
Unfortunately I cannot participate on gitlab issues since gitlab seems unable to send notifications to me. I am excluded which may please many. I do not have the bandwidth to keep a Firefox tab open on every gitlab issue I care about and to poll them to see what has happened.
Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but accept that this may be a necessary evil.
It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable and a totally unjustified vandalism.
The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option.
Regards
Ed Willink
On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks wrote:
Ed,
The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org was announced to all committers:
https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html
The announcement included a plan:
It also included a place for providing feedback:
https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678
The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so that's a done deal and will not be undone.
Certainly there are issues with issues, e.g., you can't really move them between organizations, when an organization has many repos, it's not so clear where to open and issue, and how to search for issues across repos and organizations isn't clear.
Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.
https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/
https://github.com/eclipse-pde/
https://github.com/eclipse-platform/
There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is much richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and examples.
In any case, the place to have a discussions, and to suggest concrete proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than the mailing list:
https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678
Regards,
Ed
On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:
Hi
Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the need to chase endless ripples?
While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and wiki.eclipse.org might be necessary and a manageable pain mitigated by redirects, terminating Bugzilla is madness.
Bugzilla has been providing an invaluable to service to the platform and JDT for over 20 years and as such is THE record of many design decisions. The integrity of this record should not lightly be discarded, particularly given that Bugzilla is not EOL. Ok it is not seeing much progress towards version 6, but to me that just demonstrates that it is adequate. Proposed replacements are far from adequate.
Eclipse is an aggregate of many projects and so we have long encouraged users to report their bug making a best guess at the correct product, sure in the knowledge that it can be re-componented.
For instance https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_activity.cgi?id=578944 was recently plausibly raised as an EMF bug, but then equally plausibly triaged as an OCL bug. Upon investigation this was bounced back again to EMF with the option to bounce further to platform. Bugzilla supports this very cleanly.
For instance again, last week I was forced to raise https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=579718 against PDE since JDT has gone. hoping that some PDE recipient would know what the new technology for re-componenting was. Instead a comment suggests that this is likely a side effect of the 16 year old https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=99622 that is still being worked on.
Examination of Bug 99622 shows that although JDT bugs have been moved to archive the active bugs have not yet been migrated and that no moved notifications have been sent.
It seems essential that ALL bugzillas from ALL 'platform' projects should be kept in the SAME search space; Bugzilla provides this. Replacements do not. This would seem to apply until some major disruption such as "e5" may justify the new team starting a new bug train for the new activity. Until then please keep e3 and e4 together.
For Modeling projects this is even more of an imperative. Sadly Eclipse and World Modeling is dying so the amount of new work in the next 20 years is likely to be much less than that in the last twenty. It is therefore crazy to split the dying embers off from their predecessors. If/when some magic new team of well funded enthusiasts comes along to pioneer EMF 3, then let them too choose the appropriate bug platform for the new initiative. For now please do not spend so much effort vandalizing out past achievements and burning our precious development resources.
Is there any long term Eclipse committer who actually wants this Bugzilla vandalism?
Regards
Ed Willink
On 18/04/2022 00:51, Denis Roy wrote:
We'll address the issue via the HelpDesk issue below.
Agree though, we need some redirects or links at the very least.
Denis
On 2022-04-17 12:21, Stephan Herrmann wrote:
On 17.04.22 12:46, Ed Merks wrote:
The message could be improved by redirecting here:
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt#reporting-issues
It sounds like the PMI needs attention too...
see https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/1186
Anybody with a bookmark on bugs.eclipse.org or even https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi will simply learn that JDT is no longer accepting bug reports. End of story. I thought open source development is all about communication. Never too old to learn better. I'm glad I no longer feel responsible for any of this, otherwise I'd have trouble avoiding any bad words ...
Stephan
On 17.04.2022 12:43, Ed Willink wrote:
Hi_______________________________________________
The PMI form for JDT at
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=JDT
is no longer able to report a bug. It reports "Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,,Please press Back and try again."
Does this mean that JDT is now perfect and will never have any bugs ever again?
Regards
Ed Willink
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--
Denis Roy
Director, IT Services | Eclipse Foundation
Eclipse Foundation: The Community for Open Innovation and Collaboration
Twitter: @droy_eclipse
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Denis Roy
Director, IT Services | Eclipse Foundation
Eclipse Foundation: The Community for Open Innovation and Collaboration
Twitter: @droy_eclipse