Re: [4diac-dev] Proposal: Remove IEC 61499 System Importer

[Alois Zoitl <alois.zoitl@xxxxxx>]

Hi,

as we are now further into reworking the System Explorer layout and the new type library management that comes a long with it I did an experiment to test how
the default Eclipse platform importers are handling now IEC 61499 types.

The experiment was to import the full library of the latest FBDK version. If you have FBDK on your system the library is stored in the file src.zip. For that I
used the default Eclipse Archive File importer. This worked like a charm. I had all FBDK FBs and all systems in one of my projects. I could open all that I
tried.

For me this means two things. First of all the rework of the project layout and the code for handling types and systems is definitely the right way. We can use
much more default Eclipse features out of the box with out any 4diac IDE specific adjustments (e.g. I also experimented with EGit and the overlay it provides
now to the System Explorer, but that is for another post). Secondly for me this also means there is no problem in removing the System importer as there are
alternatives available which we don't have to maintain.

Therefore I'm more strongly then ever in favor of getting rid of the system importer.

Cheers,
Alois


On Tue, 2020-03-24 at 23:03 +0100, Thomas I. Strasser wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> All in all (also with the various comments) I am not in favour of removing the functionality without any replacement. I fully understand the issues with the existing import and also with the library but just copying the file(s) manually into the workspace is in my point of view not really user friendly. At least some tool support should be there (e.g., simple tool import/tool copying with a warning regarding the library or so) or at least a clear description/documentation how to do it. I am mainly looking from an application engineer's point of view to this issue. Anyway, if the majority is in favour of removing the functionality I am not against it.
>
> Best regards
> Thomas
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:52 PM Martin Melik-Merkumians <Melik-Merkumians@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> >
> > First I also thought, that the Import option should remain, but seeing the figures Virendra sent in his emails I suddenly changed my mind.
> >
> > System and library usually form a single unit for projects, and as we currently do not support FB versioning, in my opinion the following scenario can occur.
> >
> >
> >
> > A developer imports an old system into a new 4diac project. Now, the FB library is the most recent one, but the application potentially has workarounds for bugged FBs or other assumptions on the functionality of an FB which have changed over the years.
> >
> > If there is a simple import function, the user would expect everything should work as expected from the old project.
> >
> > If there is a manual process involved, like the suggested copying of files, users usually do not expect, that everything will work without intervention.
> >
> >
> >
> > So from this point of perspective, I vote for removal without replacement.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Dipl.-Ing. Martin Melik-Merkumians
> >
> > Advanced Mechatronic Systems
> >
> > Automation and Control Institute (ACIN)
> >
> > TU Wien
> >
> > DVR-Number: 0005886
> >
> >
> >
> > Gusshausstr. 27-29, room CA-05-38
> >
> > 1040 Vienna, Austria
> >
> > Phone: +43 (0)1 588 01 37688
> >
> > Fax: +43 (0)1 588 01 937688
> >
> > Email: melik-merkumians@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > http://www.acin.tuwien.ac.at/
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > Von: 4diac-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx <4diac-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> Im Auftrag von Virendra Ashiwal
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. März 2020 21:45
> > An: 4diac-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx; alois.zoitl@xxxxxx
> > Betreff: Re: [4diac-dev] Proposal: Remove IEC 61499 System Importer
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Alois,
> >
> >
> >
> > 1) In that case, we should have option for import--> system or 4diac Project (as attachment "Options-for-importing.png")
> >
> >
> >
> > 2) In general, when importing a system to new 4diac project, how are we handling importing of libraries from that system? (as attachment "Handling-Library-while-importing.png")
> >
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Virendra
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Virendra Ashiwal, MSc
> >
> > Researcher
> >
> > LIT Cyber-Physical Systems Lab
> >
> >
> >
> > JOHANNES KEPLER
> >
> > UNIVERSITÄT LINZ
> >
> > Altenberger Straße 69
> >
> > Science Park 3, S3 0056
> >
> > 4040 Linz, Österreich
> >
> > T +43 732 2468 9487
> >
> > virendra.ashiwal@xxxxxx
> >
> > www.jku.at
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> Alois Zoitl <alois.zoitl@xxxxxx> 03/24/20 9:06 PM >>>
> > Hi Thomas,
> >
> > It is possible but i see the following issues with it:
> > - first of all it has quite some bugs (I think at least 3 are reported) that for quite some time nobody wanted to fix, for me this also means nobody needs or
> > uses it
> > - keeping it makes other code parts in 4diac IDE harder but this could be solved
> > - and finally for me the most important point: this importer confuses users. many use it to import 4diac IDE projects which most always leads to broken 4diac
> > IDE projects. Avoiding to make that mistake i would find important.
> >
> > However while I'm writing here I got the idea that with the new project layout also the system importer needs (can) change. It could simply copy the system file
> > into an existing project. With that I think all existing bugs on the importer are obsolete and we would also not break any 4diac IDE projects.
> >
> > Would this be a way? Although I must say I still prefere to delete it. It frees resources for more important stuff.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alois
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 2020-03-24 at 19:30 +0100, Thomas I. Strasser wrote:
> > > Hi Alois,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your update. Even if it's possible to just copy the sys file into
> > > the workspace I would also keep the system importer (if possible) simply for
> > > usability.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Thomas
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:33 PM Alois Zoitl <alois.zoitl@xxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > With the planned new Project layout (see Bug #558338 [1]) adding an existing IEC 61499 system file would be simply copying it into a 4diac IDE project.
> > > > Therefore it will make little sense to keep the IEC 61499 system importer. Especially as it has several issues and it would make other parts of the system file
> > > > handling code easier.
> > > >
> > > > How do you see this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Alois
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=558338
> > > >
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