Re: [wtp-pmc] Comment on section 1.7.2.4 PHP Tools Project of the Web To

[Lawrence Mandel <lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Bob,

You're right that WTP has very limited
resources and I don't know that these resources can handle all the changes
on their own. The main point that I wanted to make (and perhaps wasn't
clear in my previous post) was that I think there should be one way to
work with servers in Eclipse. WTP seems like the right venue to work on
server tools given that it is the Web Tools Platform (and PHP is, as I
understand it, a language project). If the PHP team has some developers
that can work on server tools I'd like to see them contribute their changes
to WTP and create one great set of server tools rather than create another
set of server tools in the PHP project that will add confusion when both
PHP and WTP are installed and in my mind is outside of the scope of the
PHP project (although please correct me if I've misunderstood the project
proposal).

Lawrence Mandel

Software Developer
IBM Rational Software
Phone: 905 - 413 - 3814   Fax: 905 - 413 - 4920
lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx

Robert Goodman <goodmanr@xxxxxxxxxx>
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11/13/2006 08:01 PM

Please respond to
"WTP PMC communications \(including coordination, announcements,        and Group discussions\)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>

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Subject	Re: [wtp-pmc] Comment on section 1.7.2.4 PHP Tools Project of the        Web        Tools Platform 2.0 Plan

Lawrence 

I and Brian Burns and a number of phone conferences with Tim Deboer where
we discuss the number of issues that PHP team has with the server. Brian
and I worked on the PHP IDE. Brian did most of the HTTP Server based on
the WTP infrastructure. Neither Brian or I are working on the PHP IDE anymore.

You made the statement that WTP users are already familiar with WTP serve
tools, but PHP users are not. PHP developers are not J2EE developers. The
simple fact is that the WTP server GUIs are not very intuitive. To change
a server configuration after it is created, you have to go to the server
view, select a server, right click on the server and select open. There
are people who have used eclipse that didn't know this is how it worked
until I told them. We ran into other problems like the publishing model
seemed to be baked into the based infrastructure and wasn't easily extended/changed.

I can set up a meeting, but does WTP really have resources to do anything
about it.   


    thanks 
     Bob 


Robert Goodman
IBM Emerging Technologies
goodmanr@xxxxxxxxxx
512-838-8824    T.L. 678-8824

Lawrence Mandel <lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx>
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11/12/2006 10:59 PM

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"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>

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cc
Subject	Re: [wtp-pmc] Comment on section 1.7.2.4 PHP Tools Project of the Web        Tools Platform 2.0 Plan

Bob, 

I'm not familiar with the background for this issue but this sounds like
a bad situation to me. I think where possible projects should communicate
and work together to avoid duplicating function. WRT servers, I think Eclipse
should have one way to create and control servers as users will likely
want to install both Java and PHP Web development tools. As WTP users are
already familiar with the WTP server tools I really think that creating
another way to control servers for PHP is a mistake. (Actually, I think
it's a mistake for the PHP project to not seamlessly integrate with WTP
as I think Eclipse users will expect it to.) Remember, many users will
install Eclipse, WTP and PHP and expect all the projects to work together.

Instead of creating a competing server framework in the PHP project, which
seems to me to be out of scope for the project (the creation review slides
for the project state one of the goals is to "Leverage the existing
Web Tools Project in providing developers with PHP capabilities" [1]),
I'd like to see the PHP committers work with the WTP server tools team.
Can you set up a meeting between the two teams to discuss the limitations/problems
the PHP team is having with the server tools? (Has this call already happened?)

[1] http://www.eclipse.org/php/documents/PHP%20IDE%20-%20creation%20review.pdf

Thanks, 

Lawrence Mandel

Software Developer
IBM Rational Software
Phone: 905 - 413 - 3814   Fax: 905 - 413 - 4920
lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx

Robert Goodman <goodmanr@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

11/12/2006 10:39 PM

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Subject	[wtp-pmc] Comment on section 1.7.2.4 PHP Tools Project of the Web Tools Platform 2.0 Plan

The PHP tools project has dropped or is planning to dropped support for
the Apache Server built on top of the WTP server infrastructure. The PHP
team is building there own Apache server support which isn't based on the
WTP server infrastructure. ATF has picked up the Apache Server based on
the WTP infrastructure and integrated it into ATF. In the process the ATF
team changed the GUIs back to match the WTP server GUIs for creating a
Server. The PHP team didn't think that the WTP GUIs were very intuitive.
Since these GUIs are baked into the WTP infrastructure, changing the GUIs
caused a number of problems. Eventually the PHP team decided to move off
the WTP server infrastructure. 

  Thanks 
     Bob 

Robert Goodman
IBM Emerging Technologies
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