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Re: [rest-dev] [External] : Re: Drop Minimum Java Requirement to Java 17
Hi,

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 at 23:57, James Perkins via rest-dev <rest-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The reason being is they have users/customers who might want to be on the latest version of said projects, but be stuck on Java 17.

Would that be any more realistic than users/customers who might want to be on the latest version of Java, but be stuck on said projects?

And what about users/customers who may want to be on the latest version of Windows 11 but are stuck on 486 type hardware? I'm really only half joking here. We assume there "might be" customers who want to upgrade in an unbalanced way, but is this actually the case? And does this actually happen a lot?

Kind regards,
Arjan Tijms



 
 
Von: James Perkins [mailto:jperkins@xxxxxxxxxx] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Dezember 2023 19:45
An: Markus Karg
Cc: Jakarta Rest project developer discussions; Rob McDougall
Betreff: Re: [rest-dev] Drop Minimum Java Requirement to Java 17
 
Thank you for the clarification Markus. I do understand what you mean now. My apologies if my response came across rude as I did not mean it that way, but reading it back I can see how it came across that way. My sincere apologies.
 
On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 10:33 AM Markus Karg <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I do not want to get misunderstood: I am just a user myself, even a volunteer in this project (nobody pays me for working on JAX-RS), and certainly I personally solely do consider usefulness for the enduser. But that was not the question asked, and Spring is not an end user, but a company making money with JAX-RS and other technoligies.
This project itself, officially, as set up legally by the EF, is solely controlled and bound to vendors' decisions; users (unless they are committers like me) simply do not have any powers.
It is not that I like that situation, but it is simply the truth.
-Markus
Von: James Perkins [mailto:jperkins@xxxxxxxxxx] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Dezember 2023 18:55
An: Jakarta Rest project developer discussions
Cc: Rob McDougall; Markus Karg
Betreff: Re: [rest-dev] Drop Minimum Java Requirement to Java 17
 
I want to say I do not agree with this at all. Any contribution I have made or will continue to make will be with the end user in mind. A users opinion matters greatly to me personally. That is who I'm developing for as I actually want them to use what I'm developing.
 
On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 9:46 AM Markus Karg via rest-dev <rest-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Posting an opinion IS a form of contribution, and everybody is welcome to post here, but we do not actively ask anybody to join this mailing list.
The specification is actually not developed for users, but is a wrapper around existing products (due to the "code first" attitude of the EF).
So we are doing this spec for vendors, not for users, indeed.
-Markus
 
Von: Rob McDougall [mailto:rob.mcdougall@xxxxxxxxxx] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Dezember 2023 17:33
An: Markus Karg; 'Jakarta Rest project developer discussions'
Betreff: RE: [rest-dev] Drop Minimum Java Requirement to Java 17
 
  • Once Spring is willing to contribute to Jakarta REST they are welcome to share their opinion in this discussion forum. Until today we did not receive any contribution from Spring.
 
So only contributors get a say, not users?  I think you’re forgetting who you’re developing the spec for… 😊
 
Regards,
Rob
 
Rob McDougall | Senior Technical Architect | 4Point | +1.613.907.6415 | www.4Point.com
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From: Markus Karg <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 11:18 AM
To: 'Jakarta Rest project developer discussions' <rest-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Rob McDougall <rob.mcdougall@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: AW: [rest-dev] Drop Minimum Java Requirement to Java 17
 
Once Spring is willing to contribute to Jakarta REST they are welcome to share their opinion in this discussion forum. Until today we did not receive any contribution from Spring.
-Markus
 
 
Von: rest-dev [mailto:rest-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Rob McDougall via rest-dev
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Dezember 2023 16:05
An: Jakarta Rest project developer discussions
Cc: Rob McDougall
Betreff: Re: [rest-dev] Drop Minimum Java Requirement to Java 17
 
Has anyone discussed this with the maintainers of spring-boot-jersey-starter?  
 
Spring has committed to supporting Java 17 throughout the Spring Boot 3.x lifecycle.  This may be an impediment for them to adopt Jakarta REST 4.0 or they may be able to work around it.  They may allow you to bring in 4.0 if you’re using Java 21 or they may stick with 3.1.
 
Personally, I use that for many projects.  I would be disappointed if I was stuck on 3.1 even if I was using Java 21 (due to lack of support for Java 17).
 
Regards,
Rob
 
Rob McDougall | Senior Technical Architect | 4Point | +1.613.907.6415 | www.4Point.com
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Receive our news and announcements before anyone else - follow us on:
 
Upcoming out of office dates:
  Public Holidays: Dec 25th – Jan 1st
  Vacation: Dec 18 th-Dec 20th
 
 
From: rest-dev <rest-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of James Perkins via rest-dev
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 9:49 AM
To: Arjan Tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: James Perkins <jperkins@xxxxxxxxxx>; Jakarta Rest project developer discussions <rest-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [rest-dev] Drop Minimum Java Requirement to Java 17
 
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On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 3:12 PM Arjan Tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi,
 
On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 at 18:03, James Perkins <jperkins@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
To me it comes down to the question of adoption. Do we want people to adopt the new Jakarta REST 4.0 specification? If yes, running on Java SE 17 seems like we would get the most adoption.
 
It's similar to discussions that we had since about Java 1.2 really. Back then it was staying on Java 1.0 vs adopting Java 1.2, and not even that long ago in Java EE 8 staying on Java 6 vs Java 8.
 
Eventually, was it ever an issue?
 
For some customers, it definitely was.
 
 
I mean, JDK 21 was released, instead of putting more time into JDK 17. Why did the Java SE team even release 21, if putting more time and energy into Java 17 updates would mean larger adoption of Java?
 
Or would pushing the ecosystem forward eventually mean more adoption?
 
That's impossible to say. Looking in the past though, corporations and government agencies are slow to adopt new things. Does that mean they may be slow to adopt Jakarta REST 4.0? Probably, but the least barrier of entry the better. Again, only Jakarta REST and Jakarta Concurrency are the only two individual specs moving beyond Java SE 17. 
 
 
Kind regards,
Arjan Tijms
 
 

 
-- 
James R. Perkins
JBoss by Red Hat
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-- 
James R. Perkins
JBoss by Red Hat

 
-- 
James R. Perkins
JBoss by Red Hat
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