[
Date Prev][
Date Next][
Thread Prev][
Thread Next][
Date Index][
Thread Index]
[
List Home]
|
Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE 8 Specs in PDF
|
Jan,
there are less than one hundred people actively contributing to Jakarta, but there are thousands of potential users of Jakarta EE 8 out there, which have no benefit of anything you wrote. So "everthing" is a bit exaggerated, isn't it?
-Markus
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Jan Supol
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. September 2019 12:03
An: jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE 8 Specs in PDF
Hi Markus,
I personally believe everybody benefits from the finished Jakarta EE 8
release, even with empty PDFs. The Jakarta EE 8 release helped to define
a process to follow for the new Specification to be released. The
process was tested on full Jakarta EE 8 and currently we have a version
1.2 of it. The Jakarta EE 8 release has been done in the shortest period
of time possible, it is not needed to wait another months for either the
legal departments or for all the Jakarta EE Specifications to convert
the old PDFs to the new ones. It is possible to start with the next
version of Jakarta RESTful Web Services at instant! And with the proper
specification document.
The empty PDF is not great, but the Jakarta EE users will possibly
benefit from the newer version of the Specs, from the new
functionalities, from the fixed TCKs, much sooner now.
-- Jan
On 13.09.2019 7:30, Markus KARG wrote:
>
> Just to understand the decision better: Who has any actual benefit
> (and which one) from the empty PDFs? What actually would have happened
> if we would have waited with announcing Jakarta EE 8 to be finished
> until the PDFs legal situation were cleared?
>
> I talk to lots of users and nobody can find this benefit.
>
> -Markus
>
> *Von:*Bill Shannon [mailto:bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx]
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 12. September 2019 22:37
> *An:* Jakarta EE community discussions; Markus KARG
> *Betreff:* Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE 8 Specs in PDF
>
> I completely agree with you about the risk.
>
> We decided, as a compromise, to accept this risk so that we could
> release Jakarta EE 8 sooner. Perhaps you would've chosen to wait
> until all the specification documents were available; we decided that
> releasing sooner was worth the risk.
>
> As several of us have said, the Jakarta EE specs can't say that the
> JCP specs are in any way required because of the different licenses
> involved.
>
> We will fix this problem and eliminate this risk, almost certainly for
> the next release of the specs. In the mean time we're depending on
> the good faith of all involved, knowing what our future intention is,
> to provide successful and compatible implementations of the Jakarta EE
> specs.
>
> Theoretically, this is a horrible situation to be in. Practically, I
> don't expect any serious problems. If you see serious problems
> developing, please let us know.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Markus KARG wrote on 9/12/19 10:55 AM:
>
> The problem is that now you have a different risk: Incompatible
> implementations. The reason is simple: The TCKs and APIs do not
> cover 100% of the rules laid out in the specs, so it now is
> possible to define an implementation as compliant with a spec,
> which actually is not. This risk is true at least for Jakarta REST
> as we already knew upfront of Jakarta EE several inconsistencies
> among API, TCK, spec and implementations that in fact do exist. We
> wanted to fix that, but where asked to not do fix it. And as
> certifications cannot be undone, we now started with a worst-case
> scenario: Having certified existing products against non-existent
> rules. Thanks! ;-(
>
> *Von:*jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> [mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] *Im Auftrag von
> *Steve Millidge (Payara)
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 12. September 2019 10:50
> *An:* Jakarta EE community discussions
> *Betreff:* Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE 8 Specs in PDF
>
> There are good legal reasons that the new specifications don’t
> point to the old specifications as this provides a clean,
> licensed, stand alone document to begin development from.
>
> In particular the new specifications are under a different license
> the EFSL https://www.eclipse.org/legal/efsl.php. If they
> referenced the requirements in the JCP documents then any user of
> the Jakarta specification would also be required to read the JCP
> document which has a different “click wrap” license which the user
> would then be required to accept and comply with. There was then
> a risk that this would require any Jakarta EE licensee to also
> become a Java EE licensee.
>
> IANAL
>
> Steve
>
> *From:*jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> <jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> *On Behalf Of
> *Werner Keil
> *Sent:* 12 September 2019 08:49
> *To:* Jakara EE community discussions
> <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Subject:* Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE 8 Specs in PDF
>
> Kevin,
>
> Thanks for the suggestions, I assume it'll help Markus or others
> in spec projects to point to the old specs till the new ones get
> beefed up or where they could not for some reason.
>
> Markus,
>
> I also have customers or agencies that still ask for J2EE
> experience after all these years. ;-)
>
> I stopped trying to correct them, but others who follow trends and
> new technologies or even try to shape them won't.
>
> We also see too many people who try to errect Confederate statues
> or deny the Holocaust or Climate Change, we should not make the
> same mistakes but rather look in the future.
>
> Werner
>
> Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> schrieb am Do., 12. Sep. 2019, 09:07:
>
> Markus,
> Until the rest of the Specifications are contributed to
> Eclipse (soon, I hear...), why not just update your "front
> page" (wiki, gh pages, README, whatever) to point at the JCP
> page for background information? This could be a temporary
> stop gap until the Spec source is made available to you.
>
> Also, Bill's comments (and everybody else on the Spec
> Committee) on the content of the skeletal specifications was
> to ensure consistency. If we provided a common template with
> common, consistent content (project name, scope statement,
> copyright, license, etc), then Jakarta EE will look and feel
> like a finished product. If we let every component do their
> own thing, then it would just look like a hodge-podge of
> information and would not provide the professional view that
> we have. You may not agree, and that's fine. But, we were
> doing this for a reason. Thanks.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Kevin Sutter
> STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
> e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Twitter: @kwsutter
> phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
>
>
>
> From: "Markus KARG" <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> To: "'Jakarta EE community discussions'"
> <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> Date: 09/12/2019 06:20 AM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE 8
> Specs in PDF
> Sent by: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I know that. The question is, how shall the reader of the
> Jakarte EE 8 spec know?
>
> *Von:*Bill Shannon [mailto:bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx] *
> Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 11. September 2019 23:08*
> An:* Jakarta EE community discussions; Markus KARG*
> Betreff:* Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE 8 Specs in PDF
>
> As Werner said, all the specs are on the JCP web site. You
> can find a list of all the specs and links to the JSRs on the
> Java EE Platform web site
> <https://javaee.github.io/javaee-spec/Specifications>or
> Oracle's Java EE web site
> <https://www.oracle.com/java/technologies/java-ee-glance.html#javaee8>.
>
> Markus KARG wrote on 9/11/19 11:06 AM:
>
> Actually it is hard for Jakarte EE 8 spec readers to find the
> Java EE 8 specs. The reason is that Bill Shannon (IIRC)
> enforced that existing references form the boilerplate specs
> to the Java EE specs have to get removed -- so we removed
> them, at least for JAX-RS. It is rather funny that now you
> say, people shall read exactly those specs… How shall they
> locate them?
>
> -Markus
>
> *Von:*jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> *Im Auftrag von *Kevin Sutter*
> Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 11. September 2019 10:59*
> An:* Jakarta EE community discussions*
> Betreff:* Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE 8 Specs in PDF
>
> Arjan is correct. We have complete Specifications for the
> Platform, Web Profile, CDI, and Bean Validation. The rest of
> the Components have these skeletal specifications and rely on
> the Javadoc for Jakarta EE 8. These other Specifications will
> be filed as they complete their copyright and IP clearances.
> We decided it was best to go this route instead of waiting for
> all of the Component specs to clear. Appreciate your patience.
>
> I covered some of these process-related items in my "Jakarta
> for dummEEs" talk yesterday at the JakartaOne Livestream
> conference. Replays are available:_
> _https://www.crowdcast.io/e/nztuljys/1
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Kevin Sutter
> STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
> e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Twitter: @kwsutter
> phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
>
>
>
> From: arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: Jakarta EE community discussions
> <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 09/11/2019 09:34 AM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE 8
> Specs in PDF
> Sent by: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> It's "correct" in the sense that the real spec documents
> haven't been transferred yet. The current ones that are
> released (most of them) are just the bare minimum. We call
> them boilerplate specs.
>
> We expect that sometime in the future the existing Java EE
> spec documents or a subset of those will be transferred.
>
> Kind regards,
> Arjan
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 4:30 PM Gregor Kovač <kovica@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:kovica@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Specs are available at https://jakarta.ee/specifications/
> "Jakarta EE Platform 8" has 242 pages, but "Jakarta Enterprise
> Beans 3.2" has only 5 pages. Am I missing something? Looking
> in a wrong place, ... ?
>
> Best regards,
> Kovi
>
> _______________________________________________
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list_
> _jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
> unsubscribe from this list, visit_
> _https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community_______________________________________________
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list_
> _jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
> unsubscribe from this list, visit_
> _https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list
>
>
> jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
> unsubscribe from this list, visit
>
>
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
>
> _______________________________________________
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list
> jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
> unsubscribe from this list, visit
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list
> jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
> unsubscribe from this list, visit
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list
>
> jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
>
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list
> jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
_______________________________________________
jakarta.ee-community mailing list
jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community
