| Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Specification acronyms |
Especially JAX-RS has already been a broken brand from the start because the JAX part was simply taken over from other specs like JAXB without acknowledging that the X as in XML plays almost no role in Restful APIs any more.We'll probably see people asking for Jakarta EE skills and still calling it J2EE for a while (although it would infringe some old Oracle trademark) but that is often by those who are little informed.So you probably should not use this acronym any more because it is also technically wrong aside from legal aspects.Werner_______________________________________________Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> schrieb am Fr., 31. Mai 2019, 14:58:Christian,
> I would really appreciate some official statement about this topic from the spec committee and/or EF.
We (Steering Committee, Spec Committee, EF, ...) are working on such a statement outlining the conditions that acronyms can and can not be used. Hoping to finalize it by Wednesday, but hiccups do happen...
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
From: "Gergely Molnár" <gergelymolnarpro@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Jakarta EE community discussions <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 05/31/2019 12:55 AM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Specification acronyms
Sent by: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Basic facts about trademark: https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/BasicFacts.pdf
Best regards/Üdvözlettel,
Gergely Molnár
Gergely Molnár <gergelymolnarpro@xxxxxxxxx> ezt írta (időpont: 2019. máj. 31., P 7:49):
"A trademark protects a good or service offered by a company from infringement or damage of reputation by another company. With a trademark, you have legal recourse to sue another company that uses your likeness to further their own business ventures. This includes both registered and unregistered trademark."
Best regards/Üdvözlettel,
Gergely Molnár
Christian Kaltepoth <christian@xxxxxxxxxxxx> ezt írta (időpont: 2019. máj. 31., P 7:34):
Thanks everyone for your comments.
I would really appreciate some official statement about this topic from the spec committee and/or EF. It is totally weird that projects start to look for new acronyms (which creates even more confusion for users) although it may not be necessary to do so. IANAL, but if there is to trademark for JAX-RS, I don't see a reason why we shouldn't be allowed to use it in documentation, class names, etc.
Am Do., 30. Mai 2019 um 23:24 Uhr schrieb Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>:
Some like "JMS" are not really relevant any more because the projects decided to rebrand it to "Jakarta Messaging" hence any "JMS" trademark whether by Oracle or others do not affect it.Werner
On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 6:05 PM Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
:-) thanks, Gergely... At least our sources and information are similar.
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxwrote on 05/30/2019 10:49:00 AM:
> From: "Gergely Molnár" <gergelymolnarpro@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: Jakarta EE community discussions <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 05/30/2019 10:49 AM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Specification acronyms
> Sent by: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Hi All!
>
> I research it to help your work.
> Source: https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-application-process/search-
> trademark-database
> Reference source: https://javaee.github.io/javaee-spec/javadocs/
> Is it fine or Treadmark?
> jakarta.annotation - fine
> jakarta.batch - fine
> jakarta.decorator - fine
> jakarta.ejb - EJB is TM
> jakarta.el - fine
> jakarta.enterprise - fine
> jakarta.faces - maybe ok, JSF not TM, JavaServer is TM (from doc)
> jakarta.inject - maybe ok,
> CDI - IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Educational services, namely,
> developing, arranging and conducting educational conferences and
> programs, and providing courses of instruction in the field of
> community and economic development. FIRST USE: 19870000. FIRST USE
> IN COMMERCE: 19870000
> jakarta.interceptor - fine
> jakarta.jms - some TM result (looks not Oracle), maybe not ok
> e.g.: IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Coverups; Swimwear. FIRST USE:
> 20030117. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20030117
> jakarta.json - fine
> jakarta.mail - fine (JavaMail is TM)
> javax.management.j2ee -> jakarta.management.ee4j ??? - MEJB not TM
> jakarta.persistence -> fine, JPA not TM
> jakarta.resource - fine
> jakarta.security - fine
> jakarta.servlet - fine (servlet not TM)
> jakarta.servlet.jsp - JSP is TM
> jakarta.transaction - fine
> jakarta.validation - fine
> jakarta.websocket - fine
> jakarta.ws.rs- not found for JAX-RS
> jakarta.xml - fine
>
> JavaBeans is TM
> JTA - maybe not
> JSLT - not
> JMX is TM
> JAAS - dead
>
> Best regards / Üdvözlettel,
> Gergely Molnár
>
> Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> ezt írta (időpont: 2019. máj. 30.,
> Cs, 17:43):
> Markus,
> We are working on that finalizing that list...
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Kevin Sutter
> STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
> e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
> phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
>
> jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxwrote on 05/30/2019 10:40:40 AM:
>
> > From: "Markus KARG" <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "'Jakarta EE community discussions'" <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 05/30/2019 10:41 AM
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Specification acronyms
> > Sent by: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > It would be great if Oracle or the EF could post a list of those
> > trademarks. So everybody would know them.
> >
> > From: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:jakarta.ee-
> > community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin Sutter
> > Sent: Donnerstag, 30. Mai 2019 16:02
> > To: Jakarta EE community discussions
> > Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Specification acronyms
> >
> > That is not a "full stop", Richard. The acronyms will not be used
> > in the Specification Project names and descriptions. But, beyond
> > that, they can continue to be used in documentation, package names,
> > class names, etc. Both by Eclipse and vendors.
> >
> > (There may be a few exceptions to this rule, like JDBC. But, almost
> > of the other acronyms are not TM'd.)
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > Kevin Sutter
> > STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
> > e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
> > phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
> > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
> >
> > jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxwrote on 05/30/2019 08:14:50 AM:
> >
> > > From: Richard Monson-Haefel <rmonson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: Jakarta EE community discussions <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Date: 05/30/2019 08:20 AM
> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Specification acronyms
> > > Sent by: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > Eclipse and the vendors cannot use the acronyms we are all familiar
> > > with. Full stop. That is a condition of the transfer of IP to Eclipse.
> > >
> > > My suggestion, as a community, is when writing about a topic the
> > > first mention is always Jakarta XXX. For example, "Jakarta
> > > Messaging" and subsequent mentions use just "Messaging" its longer
> > > than JMS by a few characters but actually is simpler to verbalize.
> > > Another example is EJB, instead, you start any written statement
> > > with "Jakarta Enterprise Beans" and subsequently use Enterprise
> > > Beans. After some time the community will invent its own short
> > > forms again but following this convention will get us started, avoid
> > > confusion, and IP issues.
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 5:01 AM Gergely Molnár <gergelymolnarpro@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > wrote:
> > > Sorry for send again, Jakarta is already Enterprise so it can be JB
> > > as Jakarta Bean.
> >
> > > Best regards/Üdvözlettel:
> > > Gergely Molnár
> > >
> > > Gergely Molnár <gergelymolnarpro@xxxxxxxxx> ezt írta (időpont: 2019.
> > > máj. 26., V 11:58):
> > > PS.: At the release note, it can be the full name, e.g.: Java EE 8
> > > feature list, they wrote Enterprise JavaBean and not EJB.
> >
> > > Best regards/Üdvözlettel:
> > > Gergely Molnár
> > >
> > > Gergely Molnár <gergelymolnarpro@xxxxxxxxx> ezt írta (időpont: 2019.
> > > máj. 26., V 11:11):
> > > Or just explain at every documentation the J from the abbreviation
> > > is Jakarta, because domain of all is jakarta.* If you use Enterprise Java
> > > Bean then you use javax.* or if you would like to use Enterprise Jakarta
> > > Bean then you should use jakarta.* EJB is not a trade mark, it is?
> > >
> > > Best regards / Üdvözlettel,
> > > Gergely Molnár
> > >
> > > Guillermo González de Agüero <z06.guillermo@xxxxxxxxx> ezt írta
> > > (időpont: 2019. máj. 26., V, 11:04):
> > > If we start renaming acronyms on packages we'll also need to rename
> > > some classes: https://docs.oracle.com/javaee/7/api/javax/jms/
> > > JMSConnectionFactory.html
> > >
> > > Also, EJB won't probably recieve many updates from now on. There's
> > > little to gain from changes on those packages.
> > >
> > > I'd rather go the easy path, simply replacing javax.* with jakarta.*
> > >
> > > El sáb., 25 may. 2019 22:49, Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>escribió:
> > > In some cases, every spec (except potentially some that are not
> > > touched for the time being) must change the "javax" part to
> > > "jakarta" and in a few the "filling" packages like "ws" or
> > > "enterprise" are also subject to change.
> > >
> > > Where the longer name was already in the package now like "servlet"
> > > or "persistence", there is no real need to change those, in other
> > > cases like "javax.jms" it should change to something like
> > > "jakarta.messaging", too.
> > >
> > > Not sure about EJB again, that is a bit of a special case,as the
> > > mail hinted, it's possible the "ejb" package name stays with the
> > > slight weirdness of a project whose acronym would rather be "JEB"
> > > than "EJB", for others like "JMS" I know from the project team that
> > > a change to "jakarta.message" or "jakarta.messaging" is preferred
> > > over "jakarta.jms". This may be done on a case by case basis as well.
> > >
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 9:47 PM Guillermo González de Agüero <
> > > z06.guillermo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Don't think so: https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-
> > > dev/msg00331.html
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 9:36 PM Gergely Molnár <gergelymolnarpro@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > wrote:
> > > The naming problem also affect the package name, doesn't it? If it
> > > affect, what happening with compability?
> > >
> > > Best regards / Üdvözlettel,
> > > Gergely Molnár
> > >
> > > Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx> ezt írta (időpont: 2019. máj.
> > > 25., Szo, 21:10):
> > > Please don't forget, EE4J is nothing but the administrative umbrella
> > > at Eclipse Foundation: https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/ee4j
> > > Projects like Eclipse Mosquitto, SmartHome, Hono or Vorto also don't
> > > constantly get a tease about being called iMosquitto, iSmartHome,
> > > etc. or IoTMosquitto,... so better accept it and don't bother
> > > talking about it here all the time.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Werner
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 8:58 PM Gergely Molnár <gergelymolnarpro@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Just a hint: EEJB Eclipse Enterprise Jakarta Bean. It as good as EE4J.
> >
> > > Best regards/Üdvözlettel:
> > > Gergely Molnár
> > >
> >
> > > Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx> ezt írta (időpont: 2019. máj.
> > > 25., Szo 20:47):
> > > Christian/all,
> > >
> > > I have a little bit of insight from the spec committee and although
> > > I just have one Individual voice and vote on behalf of the
> > > community, I was also the longest serving Individual both in the
> > > Java EE EG (since Java EE 6) and JCP EC, part of its duties are now
> > > with the spec committee.
> > >
> > > We still see a lot of people asking for "J2EE" experience after all
> > > those years, it won't die completely even as we approach 2020.
> > > We should try to use the project and spec names where possible. Some
> > > like "Jakarta Messaging" still being nicknamed "JMS" probably won't
> > > be a big tragedy because if you abbreviate it, you still end up with
> > > "JMS". "Jakarta Persistence" also would not be damaged if some still
> > > called the API part "JPA", while especially in this case, the Java
> > > package already contains the name.
> > > Others like the current "EJB" might be harder because the proposed
> > > name would twist it to "JEB" (not that anybody wants to advertise
> > > politicians here?;-)
> > > Some specs like CDI always had a terribly long name. There was a
> > > suggestion to cut it down to "Jakarta Contexts" but not only would
> > > abbreviating that make little sense, it would also diminish the
> > > value and scope of CDI by dropping the whole "Dependency Injection"
> > > part, while @Inject is what many associate with it although it's
> > > only part of another smaller spec embedded underneath.
> > >
> > > JAX-RS was always a wrong and ill-fated acronym, the "X" if any
> > > could be related to "javax", in reality it was mostly a quick and
> > > dirty transfer of the "JAX-WS" (for XML and SOAP) into RESTful Web
> > > Services, therefore IMO here it is a house cleaning and nobody
> > > should use JAX-RS any more after the Jakarta EE name changes.
> > >
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 5:13 PM Christian Kaltepoth <
> christian@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure where the best place to ask this question is, so I'm
> > > cross posting this to the community, PMC and WG lists.
> > >
> > > I would like to kindly ask for some clarification about how to deal
> > > with the popular Java EE specification acronyms like JPA, JAX-RS,
> > > EJB, etc in the future. A few people mentioned that Jakarta EE must
> > > not use these acronyms anymore, but AFAIK there wasn't any official
> > > statement about that.
> > > Mike mentioned in his blog post that some acronyms like EJB, JPA or
> > > JAX-RS need to change
> > > Ivar wrote that it would be up to the spec committee to define
> > > guidelines or restrictions regarding the use of acronyms.
> > > Bill noted that details about this issue are wrapped up in the
> > > negotiations between Oracle and the EF
> > > Could anyone please provide some insights? Especially regarding
> > > these questions:
> > > Can Jakarta EE continue to use the old acronyms like EJB, JAX-RS and
> > > so on? If no, which ones are forbidden? I guess the ones containing
> > > a "J" which stands for "Java"?
> > > If we are not allowed to keep the old acronyms, should each project
> > > find a new acronym or should we prevent any kind of acronym likesuggested
> > > by Ivar? Has there been any discussions about this so far?
> > > Thanks a lot!
> > >
> > > Christian
> > >
> > > --
> > > Christian Kaltepoth
> > > Blog: http://blog.kaltepoth.de/
> > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/chkal
> > > GitHub: https://github.com/chkal
> > >
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> > > --
> > > Richard Monson-Haefel
> > > https://twitter.com/rmonson
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