Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Finding a home for Web & Mobile applications

[Mrinal Kanti <design@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 12:24 AM Suren Konathala <konathalasuren@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

But instead of saying all these capabilities of JakartaEE (and how to build web applications), we are just saying "Cloud Native". That was my point.

We have to understand that the marketing is heavily influenced by the strategic members and their commercial interests. If you look at the commercial offerings of the strategic members, almost none of them have any primary product which cater to web-based UI or mobile-centric development. Though some of them may have solution offerings in that space. Portal severs (as products) are now almost forgotten. JSF has almost become an internet meme for developers.

Most of the innovation that is happening in the web UI front is still being considered disruptive and transient by many who are finding it increasingly risky to chart a 10 or even a 5 year roadmap when it comes to technology investment. The approach adopted by those technologies are too diverse to bring them on a common platform. When it comes to web based UI, its much easier (and faster) for a single vendor to take an opinionated approach and drive innovation rather than bringing multiple vendors to a specification-oriented approach. Despite those challenges, there has been several noteworthy innovations in web technologies within the enterprise java ecosystem. But to me, they seem "too little, too late" compared to how web technologies have evolved outside of it.

Also, web based UI and mobility are focus areas of solution providers or downstream product vendors who are no longer restricted by any prescriptive approach to UI development for their web-based applications.

That said, the "Cloud Native" is technology direction that is evidently aligned with the commercial interests of the majority.

Of course, these are just my personal opinions.

-Mrinal

On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 11:44 AM Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

It did not exactly sound that way. As the main buzzwords and keywords were either about native Mobile Apps (Android) or Angular/NodeJS or _javascript_ beside Progressive Web Apps.

_javascript_ in the browser (AJAX, also to some extent others like Angular) for Rich Web Clients does have support by specs mostly JSF. 

There is nothing that prevents the use of Kotlin alongside Jakarta EE, although the original message was more about Kotlin on Android. It can also be used in Web or Microservice applications. Here an example for using Kotlin with Servlets: https://kotlinlang.org/docs/tutorials/httpservlets.html

Using technologies like OpenDDR (the Open Source implementation of the W3C DDR Spec) for more responsive Mobile Web Applications is something, we did both for Java Servlets and Spring MVC. It is also possible with e.g. the Jakarta EE MVC spec, and I discussed the prospect with its contributors. They are still busy getting the Spec (JSR) Final, but if you (anybody on this thread) feel, this was a good use case for MVC, please get involved.

There are companies like Vaadin  working with PWAs on the JVM already: https://vaadin.com/pwa There shall be others and as Microsoft recently got even more Java (and Java EE) talent on board, I guess it's just a matter of  time, before it will offer Jakarta EE based PWAs as well.

Werner

On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 6:04 PM Akhilesh Tyagi <tyagiakhilesh709@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I believe, the original intent was to "market" the fact that EE tech paves the way for making apps that everyone uses on mobile and web....

On Tue 25 Dec, 2018, 9:51 PM Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Unless all current browsers (i. e. in particular Chrome) are providing a bundlet JRE this will not be possible, as web apps today means code that runs in a browser. The success of Angular and other JS-based frameworks is mostly driven by the fact that JS is found in all browsers without the need to add plugins.

 

-Markus

 

From: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Edwin Derks
Sent: Dienstag, 25. Dezember 2018 14:00
To: Jakarta EE community discussions
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Finding a home for Web & Mobile applications

 

Hi all,

 

I think Suren is making a point here, and it made me start thinking right away. What I would like to add is that, in my opinion, we shouldn’t forget what the target audience is for Jakarta EE.

 

Of course, we are building the platform for developers to build current day software, but being cloud native is just an angle of approach. Developers are building software mostly for customers that want their applications being used on the web or mobile. A concept that apparently the marketing of Dotnet has picked up perfectly.

 

So I think it might be a good idea to reconsider the (marketing) strategy of Jakarta EE to align with our competitors in that regard. Then we can prove that building current day web apps is done best with Jakarta EE, optimally using the cloud and bringing specifications for every need a developer has, building software on a single platform. Don’t forget that this is one of greatest virtues.

 

Please share your thoughts with me.

 

Kind regards,

 

Edwin 

 

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 at 13:45, Suren Konathala <konathalasuren@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

We use Java as a backend for a lot of applications.. Desktop, Web, Mobile, Cloud. And most of us know we're building more Web & Mobile applications (with Java/Jakarta EE as backend) than any other.

 

Also, i'm not sure not all of these are cloud-native.. yes "Cloud" is the next big thing and we should reflect that.. but my point is that we should not ignore "Web" and "Mobile". There is not proper home for developers to start building Web/Mobile applications using Java. None of these say anything https://jakarta.ee/ , https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/ee4j/charter  , https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/overview/index.html 

 

And competition..  

• NodeJS/_javascript_ is becoming almost de-facto to build backend for websites/web-apps. 
• Beating Java, Kotlin became the first class citizen to build apps on Android (this is huge).
• PWA (Progressive Web Apps) will soon be big. 

 

Since JakartaEE will be the new home for enterprise java, shouldn't we reflect all those on the website's home page instead of just saying "Cloud native"? 

 

I know with Oracle's transition there's a lot of work for our community but if we start the process, think about these and help developers.. i am open to help in anyway required.

 

Below screenshots of JakartaEE and .NET website home pages:

 

 

 

 

Thanks

Suren

 

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