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Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta Tech Talks, meetups starting January 2019 with Jakarta EE NoSQL
Werner, thank you for the great message. I believe it highlights the main issue. 

Sorry for my question in advance, but can somebody please clarify at which point Jakarta EE became a real cloud-native project/technology? Right after the survey and expressed intention of “enhanced support for microservices and better integrations with technologies like Docker and Kubernetes” https://jaxenter.com/jakarta-ee-cloud-native-java-143738.html? Or it’s related to a specific improvement?

Thanks


On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 15:53 Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The problem is, Cloud Native is about as much of a Buzzword as Microservice, Agile or DevOps. It contains far too many facets, and especially JNoSQL or Jakarta NoSQL makes very little sense in that context. So talking about something like NoSQL in a "Cloud Native" context makes little sense and would probably confuse people more because they normally expect that under another buzzword (like "Big Data" ;-) 
If Eclipse Foundation wants to add themes to these Tech Talks, then it could be an extra theme or "channel" including most of MicroProfile (because it realizes many of the commonly identified Microservice Patterns) but JNoSQL would make less sense under that theme. 
We had many discussions whether or not JNoSQL should be merged into MicroProfile, but it would not really fit because neither those patterns on an abstract level nor most Microservices care, if "data" is NoSQL, RDBMS or just a plain file. 
So NoSQL is closer to JPA and could even show synergies in a few cases with that under the Jakarta EE umbrella.

So if two or more flavors of these tech talks are possible, why not, but I would not put "Cloud" or "Cloud Native" on it just because it's Hip right now.


Werner





On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:42 PM Cesar Saavedra <csaavedr@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It's not about us. It's really about our audience. People are currently confused about Jakarta EE and MicroProfile:
1) Some think that they are one and the same
2) Some think that MicroProfile is a subset of Jakarta EE (this is actually giving ammo to some competitors that are trying to pin MicroProfile with the unpopular perception that app servers are heavy and slow)
3) Some think that MicroProfile is now unnecessary because Jakarta EE will absolve it.

I know we have been trying to clarify this via interviews, blog posts, etc. But there's still confusion (that's leading to FUD) in the market about how these two projects relate.

I'm afraid that calling these talks "Jakarta Tech Talks", and include everything about cloud-native under the Eclipse Foundation, will continue to generate confusion in our audience. If I may make a suggestion, I'd rename these talks to "Eclipse Cloud-native Tech Talks", which is more inclusive of all technologies, not just Jakarta EE, and it really reflects the spirit of these talks.

My $0.02,
Cesar

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:47 AM Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Let's remember that "Jakarta" is in the generic sense "Java".  We have "Jakarta EE" to qualify the Enterprise Edition aspects.  But, we should think of "Jakarta" like "Java", so the "Jakarta Tech Talks" should entertain anything and everything related to Java.  Based on Tanja's last reply, that sounds like our direction.  Thanks.

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:        Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
To:        Jakarta EE community discussions <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        12/20/2018 07:30 AM
Subject:        Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta Tech Talks, meetups starting January 2019 with Jakarta EE NoSQL
Sent by:        jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx



+1

MicroProfile should be seen a s a compliment and addition to Java EE/ Jakara EE for certain scenarios, not a competitor.
Eventually some parts may be merged into the standard, take the likes of Hibernate, Spring Batch or other technologies that shaped the content of the Java EE stack before.

Werner 





On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:24 PM Ivar Grimstad <ivar.grimstad@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I can't find any reason why they should be kept separate. We're the same people   same community,  same technology. Creating separations just for the sake of it only risks an "us and them" attitude. Let's stay above that! My two cents...

Ivar

On Thu, 20 Dec 2018, 09:14 Richard Monson-Haefel <rmonson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwrote:
+1 for keeping them separate.

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 11:48 AM Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I'd like to vote for keeping it separated.

-Markus

 

From: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin Sutter
Sent: Mittwoch, 19. Dezember 2018 15:30
To: Jakarta EE community discussions
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta Tech Talks, meetups starting January 2019 with Jakarta EE NoSQL

 

Amelia is correct in some regards...  MicroProfile is its own entity, separate from Jakarta EE.  We have our own Marketing committee.  We have our own forums, we produce our own blogs, we present at conferences, etc.  But, we also need to recognize that we are part of the Eclipse Foundation family.  I have witnessed the support for MicroProfile by the Eclipse Foundation at several conferences this past year.  Along with the Eclipse newsletter, vBlogs, tweets, keynotes -- Eclipse Foundation fundamentally supports the MicroProfile efforts.  As they do with Jakarta EE.

So, in my opinion, if these Jakarta Tech Talks want to include topics related to MicroProfile, I think that's great!  Maybe a slight tweak in the name would help -- Jakarta and MicroProfile Tech Talks, if that's doable.  Otherwise, if we have any MicroProfile-specific talks, we can indicate that we are still a separate project as part of our introduction and then move into the details.  This should be considered yet another opportunity for the MicroProfile team to spread the word about the great work we're doing.

Now, with all of that explanation...  If the Jakarta Community would rather keep these Jakarta Tech Talks narrowed to just the Jakarta EE projects, then that's fine also.  No hard feelings.  But, if we are invited to participate in these Tech Talks, let's do it!  Thanks!

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx    Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:        Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        Jakarta EE Community <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        12/18/2018 04:35 PM
Subject:        Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta Tech Talks, meetups starting January 2019 with Jakarta EE NoSQL
Sent by:        jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx




Tanja,

Thanks for sending link to to enable Jakarta Tech Talks meetup group, just joined! :)
Thus far 26 Jakartees, lets participate beautiful Community.

I noticed MicroProfile being added to the sessions under the Jakarta talks. As a MicroProfiler Co-founder, I am requesting the immediate removal from the list today.
As stated in 2018 via many MicroProfile blogs and Q&A, the MicroProfile project will continue to be its own project, not under the Jakarta EE Project.
The MicroProfile project will manage via its community of volunteers 100% of all its marketing initiatives.

Lastly, I will follow up via the MicroProfile forum clarification on the latest Marketing MP call meeting with respect to that matter that continues to be brought in to the calls by the EF team.
Re-stating via this forum that the MP project won’t be marketed with the Jakarta EE project.  

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MhFrcfdnmEND0lHzDkMa2TyhhtU90OKgthhGTjpyQ-4/edit#heading=h.5kmut5p0phc6

Happy to clarify any questions, should that be necessary,


Amelia Eiras
https://twitter.com/ameliaeiras
Tribe: https://tomitribe.com    https://tribestream.io
OSS:  https://tomitribe.io       https://microprofile.io








On Dec 17, 2018, at 12:00 PM, Tanja Obradovic <tanja.obradovic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hello Jakarta community!

I'd like to give you heads up on the meetup series we are preparing and introducing in January 2019. We named the session Jakarta Tech Talks , and we plan to meet once a month to start with and include wide range of topics related to Java Cloud Native technologies.

Please consider this as an invite to the first session Jakarta EE meets NoSQL planned for January 22nd, 2019 @ 11 AM EST. Refer to the link above or here for dial in details.

Other sessions we have planed in the following months are:  

James Roper, Reactive Streams
Kevin Sutter, Eclipse Project for Java Batch
Emily Jiang, MicroProfile next version
Markus Karg, JAX-RS

and many more...

If you have any suggestions or if you are interested to present in one of the future sessions, please let me know!

Best Regards,

Tanja

--
Tanja Obradovic
Jakarta EE Program Manager | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.
Twitter: @TanjaEclipse
Eclipse Foundation: The Platform for Open Innovation and Collaboration

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com



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https://www.tomitribe.com/
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--
Cesar Saavedra
Senior Principal Technical Product Marketing Manager
(407) 492-9801
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