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Re: [jakarta.ee-community] JAX-RS 2.1.1 Available On Maven Central
Hi,

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 8:31 PM Mihai A. <amihaiemil@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Sorry to intervene again, but it seems funny. Why was this in discussion in the first place? What is the sense of a specification if not to lead the market?

For me it was never really a discussion, and it was certainly not how we intended to run the JSF, _expression_ Language, EE Security, JACC, JASPIC, and Concurrency specs. The specification process is always a combination of coming up with new features, refining existing features, and standardising things that have been proven to work and which many implementations already have in some shape or form. Typically if something has been implemented before in a proprietary way it will get accepted much faster, and something really experimental or unproven is not a prime candidate for adding to the spec.

It differs a little between specs though. For instance, JPA has taken more features from implementations like Hibernate in its revisions. JSF has done less so, since Mojarra and MyFaces are first and foremost implementations of JSF and far less (or maybe not at all) an independent framework as well.

Kind regards,
Arjan







 

I would like EF to not make the same mistake Oracle did, and that is allow vendors to implement more than the spec covers. Because it's in the best interest of vendors to tie developers to their own (licenced, paid) implementations. They do this by adding new, proprietary, features. Devs do not realize this, of course, until their code is in Production :)

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 20:53 Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Mike,

 

in fact you told me in person at ECE 2017 that you do NOT want specifications to be developed first, and then added ontop of the products, but that you want the specifications to describe the EXISTING features of the existing products. I can't help it if you didn't want to say or imply that, but it was what I (and others in the room) understood. This might be a misunderstanding, so let's restart from scratch:

 

So a specification project MAY invent new features in the specifiation FIRST, before ANY product actually implements this? Good for us! :-)

 

-Markus

 

From: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Milinkovich
Sent: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 16:22
To: jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] JAX-RS 2.1.1 Available On Maven Central

 

On 2018-09-09 7:18 AM, Markus KARG wrote:

Unfortunately this is not the EFs official policy. According to EF president Mike Milinkovic, all EE4J API projects shall NOT force features from vendors, but instead shall only wrap existing features under a common hood. What I did is adding feature to API AND to Jersey parallel, and encouraged other vendors to follow.


Markus,

I don't recall ever making the statement above. It's possible that there's been a misunderstanding.

I do expect innovation to happen in the specifications once we get the process going. There will have to be some give-and-take between the aspirations of the community and the vendors who have to bear the cost of implementing them. But I see that as a normal part of any specification process that desires to deliver new innovations.

 

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