| Re: [epp-dev] Minimum BREE for EPP Neon |
FYI, I added this information in the wiki here: https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Installation/Java8Required
I also added a mention and link to that page at https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Installation#Eclipse_4.6_.28Neon.29
We can refer user/community inquiries to that page as needed.
Eric
Ping. Anyone have some advice as to where to capture this information in the wiki?
I'm willing to do the work, I just need to know where it should go.
Eric
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https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/epp-devThanks Aleksandar and Martin for providing the details of the decision. I'd like to capture this info in a wiki page to refer users to when Neon releases; any suggestion on a good place in the wiki for this to live? I looked at the "Eclipse_Project" category (https://wiki.eclipse.org/Category:Eclipse_Project) but didn't see an obvious good home there; it also wasn't clear that the content there is very up-to-date.
Eric
----- Original Message -----From: "Martin Oberhuber" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: "Eclipse Packaging Project" <epp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, 18 August, 2015 6:19:36 PM Subject: Re: [epp-dev] Minimum BREE for EPP Neon Hi Eric, all – Since I was part of the Eclipse Platform PMC decision moving to Java 8, I briefly wanted to mention some reasons for that decision: - Java 8 is available today on all major Platforms – including Linux-ARM for example – and by multiple JRE vendors. In terms of security fixes, it’s safer than Java 7 (TLSv1.2 for example is only enabled in Java 8 by default). - By the time Neon ships, Java 8 will be 2 years old (so one can’t call that bleeding edge J ) - Finally, Java 8 introduces some interesting new language features which some contributors can’t wait using. This is a difference compared to Java 7 which just updated the libraries but not the language. It’s true we have to cater to users, but we also have to cater to the contributors. If the Eclipse Platform starts looking old-fashioned and lame (and forbidding new language features puts us at risk of looking so), we’d risk losing contributors (which the Platform really needs).It's worth mentioning also that what pulled the trigger was Eclipse Help system which relies on Jetty and it requires Java 8 in it's latest (and safest) release. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse teamSo, this decision was not about giving developers any toys, but it was carefully weighing in on the aspects mentioned above. While some (hopefully few) might struggle with this decision, we hope that the benefit outweighs the itches. See also the Aug5 meeting notes here: https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/PMC Thanks, Martin -- Martin Oberhuber , SMTS / Product Owner – Development Tools, Wind River direct +43.662.457915.85 fax +43.662.457915.6 From: epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lars Vogel Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 11:28 PM To: Eclipse Packaging Project Subject: Re: [epp-dev] Minimum BREE for EPP Neon Hi Eric and all, FYI - the platform PMC decided to also move to Java 8 for Neon, Dani just announced it on cross. Best regards, Lars On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Eric Rizzo < eclipse-mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx > wrote: I'm not an EPP package maintainer or committer, but I'd like to provide some user-community perspective on this. Java 8 is just over 1 year old, and it's well known that many people and (especially) corporations are slow to adopt new versions. If Eclipse packages were to require Java 8, I can pretty much guarantee, based on many years' experience supporting the community, that there will be many complaints and confused users. In fact, in a corporate environment where users literally can not update their own workstations, I'd say it's highly likely that users would be unable to use Neon, or at least have to jump through corporate IT hoops to get it working. I'm not knocking Java 8 (at least not here), I'm just trying to keep everyone focused on the users. Just because we, as tool developers, are enamored and in love with the latest toys doesn't mean we can justify pushing them down the throats of our large user base. Eric Lars Vogel July 30, 2015 1:52 PM Hi, I noticed yesterday that m2e moved to Java 8, which triggered this request. I contacted Markus Knauer and he suggested that I should send an email to this list to trigger the discussion about BREE for the EPP's in Neon. I personally think it would be great to require Java 8 as BREE for the EPP out of the following reasons: - Java 7 is out of public maintenance - if the EPP's decide early that they will require Java 8, other project will have the option to improve their code base based on Java 8 - if m2e requires Java 8, AFAIK this would bump the most important EPP's also to Java 8. In Platform UI I would also like to support the Java 8 Date and Time API via Databinding, which would also bump platform to Java 8. This is not yet implement but on our roadmap. AFAIK the Jetty webserver also requires Java 8, which would result in a bump in the Eclipse Help system to Java 8. Best regards, Lars _______________________________________________ epp-dev mailing list epp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/epp-dev -- Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead CEO vogella GmbH Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058 Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel USt-IdNr.: DE284122352 Fax (032) 221739404, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx , Web: http://www.vogella.com _______________________________________________ epp-dev mailing list epp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/epp-dev_______________________________________________ epp-dev mailing list epp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/epp-devHi Eric, all –
Since I was part of the Eclipse Platform PMC decision moving to Java 8, I briefly wanted to mention some reasons for that decision:
- Java 8 is available today on all major Platforms – including Linux-ARM for example – and by multiple JRE vendors. In terms of security fixes, it’s safer than Java 7 (TLSv1.2 for example is only enabled in Java 8 by default).
- By the time Neon ships, Java 8 will be 2 years old (so one can’t call that bleeding edge J)
- Finally, Java 8 introduces some interesting new language features which some contributors can’t wait using. This is a difference compared to Java 7 which just updated the libraries but not the language. It’s true we have to cater to users, but we also have to cater to the contributors. If the Eclipse Platform starts looking old-fashioned and lame (and forbidding new language features puts us at risk of looking so), we’d risk losing contributors (which the Platform really needs).
So, this decision was not about giving developers any toys, but it was carefully weighing in on the aspects mentioned above. While some (hopefully few) might struggle with this decision, we hope that the benefit outweighs the itches.
See also the Aug5 meeting notes here: https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/PMC
Thanks,
Martin
--
Martin Oberhuber, SMTS / Product Owner – Development Tools, Wind River
direct +43.662.457915.85 fax +43.662.457915.6
From: epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lars Vogel
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 11:28 PM
To: Eclipse Packaging Project
Subject: Re: [epp-dev] Minimum BREE for EPP Neon
Hi Eric and all,
FYI - the platform PMC decided to also move to Java 8 for Neon, Dani just announced it on cross.
Best regards, Lars
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https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/epp-devI'm not an EPP package maintainer or committer, but I'd like to provide some user-community perspective on this.
Java 8 is just over 1 year old, and it's well known that many people and (especially) corporations are slow to adopt new versions. If Eclipse packages were to require Java 8, I can pretty much guarantee, based on many years' experience supporting the community, that there will be many complaints and confused users. In fact, in a corporate environment where users literally can not update their own workstations, I'd say it's highly likely that users would be unable to use Neon, or at least have to jump through corporate IT hoops to get it working.
I'm not knocking Java 8 (at least not here), I'm just trying to keep everyone focused on the users. Just because we, as tool developers, are enamored and in love with the latest toys doesn't mean we can justify pushing them down the throats of our large user base.
Eric
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https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/epp-dev
