Re: [cdt-dev] FW: New topic in forum C / C++ IDE (CDT), called Why can't

[Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx>]

The point is to plot a course where things work out of the box for Eclipse
as well. There¹s no magic to Qt Creator, it¹s just the lack of taking the
needs of beginners seriously.

Finally forwarding this to ide-dev as well. Great feedback from a poor
university student and his dad who used Eclipse to learn Java and were
then trying to use the C++ IDE to learn C++. It was a disaster. As I say
below, we can do better.

On 2015-10-26, 8:14 PM, "cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Michael
Scharf" <cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Michael-Scharf@xxxxxx>
wrote:

>For beginners something like Qt Creator may be more useful than
>eclipse CDT. Installation is trivial and it works out of the box.
>Well, OK, you have to have a fast finger on Ctrl-S because Qt Creator
>crashes quite often is is much less capable than CDT, but it just
>works. And as a beginner that is what counts....
>
>Michael
>
>On 2015-10-21 5:19, Doug Schaefer wrote:
>> The request I was referring to was to "take pity on beginning C++
>>programmers". When they install the C++ IDE for Eclipse it should just
>>work, right out of the box. It should make sure a toolchain is installed
>>so they don't need to learn
>> what a toolchain is. That feeling they have frustrated by Eclipse is
>>something that will stick with this poor student forever and that
>>impacts they're perception of Eclipse for C++ as they enter the
>>workforce.
>> 
>> It's comments like theirs that make me want to rip the C++ IDE off of
>>the Eclipse download site. It's horrible for true beginners. We can do
>>better.
>> 
>> Doug.
>> 
>> 
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>---------------------
>> *From:* cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] on
>>behalf of Alena Laskavaia [elaskavaia.cdt@xxxxxxxxx]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2015 10:45 PM
>> *To:* CDT General developers list.
>> *Subject:* Re: [cdt-dev] FW: New topic in forum C / C++ IDE (CDT),
>>called Why can't it "just work"?, by Rob Lewis
>> 
>> So use clang on Mac or some-how redistribute gcc?
>> We can also generate code using our indexer :) I am sure hello world we
>>can manage.
>> They also want managed build which we are trying to kill... "The symbol
>>could not be resolved" is because from missing a library
>> and unless we managing the build we cannot help them.
>> But yes it would be awesome if toolchain and builder comes with CDT and
>>you don't even know it exists.
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx
>><mailto:dschaefer@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> 
>>     This is an awesome request.
>> 
>>     From: "forums-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxx
>><mailto:forums-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxx>" <forums-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxx
>><mailto:forums-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>     Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 10:40 AM
>>     To: Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx <mailto:dschaefer@xxxxxxx>>
>>     Subject: New topic in forum C / C++ IDE (CDT), called Why can't it
>>"just work"?, by Rob Lewis
>> 
>>         *Subject:* Why can't it "just work"? 	*Author:* Rob Lewis
>>	*Date:* Tue, 20 October 2015 14:40
>>         My son began his CS education writing Java with Eclipse. I've
>>actively followed his progress, in part to update my own programming
>>knowledge.
>> 
>>         Now he (we) have moved on to C++, and after installing the CDT,
>>Eclipse's ease of setup and use seem to have ended in a morass of
>>confusing options and obscure (and apparently wrong) settings that
>>prevent writing and running the
>>         simplest of programs without hours of often fruitless research
>>trying to figure out what needs to be changed ("The symbol cout could
>>not be resolved"? Really? What, please, is a "toolchain"? Could we get a
>>more helpful error message
>>         than "syntax error"?)
>> 
>>         All these options and settings might be valuable to very senior
>>programmers who appreciate such fine-grained control of their IDE, but
>>it seems to me there is a great need for a Mac student-level C++ package
>>that "just works"
>>         without all the drama. (I actually don't know if other OS
>>versions of Eclipse have the same problems, but I suspect they may.)
>> 
>>         Is there any possibility that Eclipse's developers will take
>>pity on beginning C++ programmers?
>>         [ Reply 
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>> 
>>     _______________________________________________