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RE: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
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I vote 4 PM, we have a satellite broadcast at 11 that will run past 12.
___________________________________________
Chris Recoskie
Software Designer
IDE Frameworks Group
Texas Instruments, Toronto
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Sebastien Marineau
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:13 PM
> To: cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
>
> OK, thanks for the comments on this.
>
> How about we have a quick conf. call on Thursday, either at 12PM or
4PM
> EST?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sebastien
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Greg Watson
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:44 AM
> > To: cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
> >
> > From the point of view of the parallel tools platform,
> > support for remote source and the ability to both build and
> > launch remotely is something I think will be an important
> > requirement in the future. I'd certainly be interested in
> > discussing this issue.
> >
> > Greg Watson
> > Advanced Computing Lab, Los Alamos National Laboratory
> >
> > On Jan 25, 2005, at 5:44 AM, Douglas Schaefer wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Mary,
> > >
> > > When we talk remote, we usually mean remote launching. Often this
> > > requires remote build since cross compilers may not be
> > available for
> > > the target. We rarely see cases where the source is not available
> > > locally, although I am well aware of scenarios where this
> > architecture
> > > is required. We can certainly add a discussion on this topic.
> > >
> > > Doug Schaefer
> > > Ottawa Lab, IBM Rational Software Division
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mary Huang" <mary.huang@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent by: cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > 01/24/2005 02:03 PM
> > > Please respond to
> > > cdt-dev
> > >
> > >
> > > To
> > > <cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > cc
> > >
> > > Subject
> > > Re: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't suppose that "Remote Development" includes the
> > scenario where
> > > the Eclipse IDE (with CDT) is local to the workstation, but
> > the source
> > > and the build environment is "remote" (i.e. on a totally different
> > > system)?
> > >
> > > Mary
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Recoskie, Chris" <crecoskie@xxxxxx>
> > > To: <cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 12:28 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
> > >
> > >
> > >> Personally I think that for anyone not directly involved with
this
> > >> conversation there could be confusion as to what "remote" means.
> > >> People
> > >> might think that we're talking about running Eclipse/CDT with the
> > >> debugger process itself or maybe even controlling the IDE
> > running on
> > >> another machine. When you say "embedded"
> > development/debug everyone
> > >> generally knows what you're talking about.
> > >>
> > >> A large part of the focus of the session is also not just
> > on setting
> > >> up a remote connection to the target but to the various
> > requirements
> > >> of debugging an embedded system in general, without even thinking
> > >> about how one goes about connecting to the target. There is
> > >> definitely an intersection between the two topics because
embedded
> > >> systems are usually remote systems (it's not too often that
you're
> > >> running your IDE on your remote system but hey, it could
> > happen), but
> > >> they are not the same.
> > >>
> > >> So, I don't mind changing the name if we come up with something
> > >> suitable, but I don't think "CDT Remote Development and
> > Debugging" is
> > >> the solution as that loses a lot in translation.
> > >>
> > >> If we want to get together beforehand in a meeting I'm all
> > for it if
> > >> people want to. To be clear however, our idea though was to
> > >> basically present our material and discuss it at the BOF and give
> > >> others the chance to do the same with their own material. We
were
> > >> not planning to get together and come up with one big
> > unified set of
> > >> content to then present jointly at the BOF.
> > >>
> > >> Our thought regarding the theme was "What are the issues
> > participants
> > >> are having with using CDT for embedded development, and
> > what could we
> > >> start doing to improve things." We can add additional themes if
> > >> people wish but that's the theme that we plan on addressing in
our
> > >> presentation and discussion.
> > >>
> > >> ___________________________________________
> > >>
> > >> Chris Recoskie
> > >> Software Designer
> > >> IDE Frameworks Group
> > >> Texas Instruments, Toronto
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > >>> On Behalf Of Sebastien Marineau
> > >>> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:42 AM
> > >>> To: cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> Subject: RE: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Sumit,
> > >>>
> > >>> Your suggestions are fine by me. TI, Montavista, others -- any
> > >> comments?
> > >>>
> > >>> As for setting up a call -- I can do that. I'm assuming we want
to
> > >> have
> > >>> the
> > >>> others participate as well, so what time would work best for
> > >>> everyone?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Sebastien
> > >>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> [mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sumit Sarkar
> > >>>> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 5:42 PM
> > >>>> To: cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi Sebastien,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Instead of "Embedded Development and Debugging", we
> > like to call
> > >>>> it "CDT Remote Development and Debugging" - the 1st
> > March BOF. Can
> > >>>> we come up with a "BOF theme" - so that the participants get a
> > >>>> "platform"
> > >>>> to discuss about? Like what are the challenges a developer face
> > >>>> when they try to develop on a Remote machine and then
> > what are the
> > >>>> solutions are being currently worked on.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Can we setup a meeting (may be next week) to discuss further on
> > >>>> this BOF?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>> sumit
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:05:14 -0500, Sebastien Marineau
> > >>>> <sebastien@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>>> Good catch -- that is indeed Tuesday the 28th :-)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So here's where we are at for the BOFs:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Eclipse CDT BOF
> > >>>>> Intel (20 min) - Leo Treggiari - Managed Build System
> > >>>> overview Altera
> > >>>>> (10-20 mins?) - Tracy Miranda - What Altera has been doing,
> > >>>>> discussion on CDT features IBM (20 mins) - John Camelon -
> > >>>> the latest
> > >>>>> in cool parsing, and demo of the DOM viewer IBM (20
> > mins) - Doug -
> > >>>>> Demo of IBM C++/UML visualizer (built on CDT) QNX (15
> > mins) - Dave
> > >>>>> Inglis - Debug discussion
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Embedded development and debugging TI (20 mins) --
> > Chris Recoskie
> > >>>>> - demo, remote debugging issues Montavista (20 mins) -
> > >>>>> Pierre-Alexandre Masse - current status on remote
> > debug, ideas for
> > >>>>> the future HP -- Sumit Sarkar - Remote development?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> In terms of other participation, how about WindRiver,
> > >>>> Timesys, Redhat,
> > >>>>> Rockwell, others?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Sebastien
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>> From: cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>> [mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > Pierre-Alexandre
> > >>>>>> Masse
> > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:44 PM
> > >>>>>> To: cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at
EclipseCon
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Do you mean it will be a week without Tuesday then?
> > >>>>>> Just kidding ;)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Pierre-Alexandre
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Recoskie, Chris wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 2005 isn't a leap year so doing a BOF on the 29^th may
> > >>>>>> prove difficult
> > >>>>>>> without a flux capacitor
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ___________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Chris Recoskie
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Software Designer
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> IDE Frameworks Group
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Texas Instruments, Toronto
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>> *From:* cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > >>>>>>> *On Behalf Of *Sebastien Marineau
> > >>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2005 5:14 PM
> > >>>>>>> *To:* cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>> *Subject:* [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hi folks,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Concerning the BOFs, I did get information back from the
> > >>>>>>> EclipseCon organizers -- please see the email from
> > >>>> Bjorn further
> > >>>>>>> below. The bottom line is that we have the freedom to
> > >>>> organize our
> > >>>>>>> own
> > >>>>>> BOFs, as
> > >>>>>>> well as set the schedule.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> To get the ball rolling, our original proposal was to hold
> > >>>>>> 2 BOFs, as
> > >>>>>>> listed below.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Eclipse CDT BOF:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Meet the experts and discuss the implementation and
> > >>>>>> direction of CDT.
> > >>>>>>> The format will likely be a series of mini-overviews on
> > >>>> different
> > >>>>>>> aspects of CDT along with open discussions.Intel, IBM, QNX
> > >>>>>> and Redhat
> > >>>>>>> have volunteered to present here. We will also try to get a
> > >> few
> > >>>>>>> customers to present their experiences.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Remote development and debugging BOF:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> TI, HP, Montavista and IBM have expressed strong interest
> > >>>>>> in hosting
> > >>>>>>> this. The main focus would be on the specific
> > >>>> challenges of using
> > >>>>>>> Eclipse and CDT in a host/target configuration, both for
> > >>>>>> development
> > >>>>>>> and debugging. This spans the range from deeply
> > >>>> embedded (TI) to
> > >>>>>>> traditional embedded (Mvista) to the server/mini types of
> > >>>>>> apps (HP and
> > >>>>>>> IBM). I also expect we can get a couple of customers to
> > >>>>>> participate in
> > >>>>>>> this as well.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> My suggestion is to schedule these for the Tuesday and
> > >>>>>> Wednesday - the
> > >>>>>>> general CDT BOF on Tuesday the 29th, and the remote
> > >>>>>>> development/debugging BOF on Wednesday (March 1st).
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> As for the content, I do know that additional companies
(e.g.
> > >>>>>>> Windriver) have expressed interest in participating, so
> > >>>>>> maybe we can
> > >>>>>>> start by having everyone throw out what they'd like to
> > >>>> contribute
> > >>>>>>> (discussion topics, mini-presentations, demos etc) and
> > >>>>>> we'll collect
> > >>>>>>> it into the BOF "program".
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sebastien
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>> -
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> *From:* Bjorn Freeman-Benson [mailto:bjorn@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > >>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2005 4:21 PM
> > >>>>>>> *To:* 'Dwight Deugo'; sebastien@xxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Sebastien,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Please forward this clarification to the CDT mailing
> > >>>>>> list - thank you.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I, as the EclipseCon Organizing Chair / Final
> > >>>> Arbitrar of All
> > >>>>>>> Things EclipseCon, received a forwarded copy of
> > >>>> this CDT mailing
> > >>>>>>> list and I'd like to take the opportunity to set the
> > >> record
> > >>>>>>> straight / clarify the situation...
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hello All,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> While working out some issues with my registration
> > >>>>>> I just got
> > >>>>>>> word from Meeting Strategies Worldwide (they're
> > >>>> doing the
> > >>>>>>> registration etc for EclipseCon) that the
> > >>>> decision on which
> > >>>>>>> BOFs to go with will be made onsite. Yes, you read
> > >>>>>> that right
> > >>>>>>> - onsite on the day of.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This means that if we want to do a BOF we will have
> > >>>>>> to submit
> > >>>>>>> our proposals yet again.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Relevant text quoted:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> **_I have just received word today that all BoF
> > >>>> submissions
> > >>>>>>> have been neither accepted nor rejected - all BoFs
> > >>>>>> will now be
> > >>>>>>> decided upon onsite at the conference. An email
> > >>>> will be sent
> > >>>>>>> very soon, to all people who have submitted BoFs
> > >>>>>> detailing the
> > >>>>>>> process for getting their BoF submitted onsite._**
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> It might be worthwhile to not rely on the EclipseCon
> > >>>>>>> organizers for this and organize a BOF ourselves -
> > >>>>>> does anyone
> > >>>>>>> from the Bay area got some meeting space they
> > >>>> could donate?
> > >>>>>>> ;^)
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> We (and by this I mean the Singular We, i.e., me)
decided
> > >> to
> > >>>>>>> organize the BOFs at EclipseCon 2005 exactly the
> > >>>> same way they
> > >>>>>>> were run at EclipseCon 2004. We made this choice
> > >>>> because it is
> > >>>>>>> organizationally much simpler. Here's how it worked
> > >>>>>> last year and
> > >>>>>>> here's how it's going to work this year:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> * One goal for BOFs is to facilitate the informal
> > >>>>>> gathering of
> > >>>>>>> similarly interested attendees.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> * Another goal for BOFs is to make the process
> > >>>> of gathering
> > >>>>>>> for a BOF as simple as possible for everyone
> > >> involved.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> * Another goal is to make best use of the
> > >>>> meeting space we
> > >>>>>>> have available. Thus we want to provide the
> > >>>>>> larger rooms to
> > >>>>>>> the BOFs with more people and the smaller
> > >>>> rooms to those
> > >>>>>>> with fewer people.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> * An explicit negative goal for BOFs is to prevent
> > >>>>>> their being
> > >>>>>>> hijacked by companies using them as
> > >>>> advertising pitches.
> > >>>>>>> Allowing BOFs to be pre-scheduled has, at other
> > >>>>>> conferences,
> > >>>>>>> allowed them to be taken over by marketing types.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> So, here's the process - it's very simple and I think
> > >>>>>> you'll find
> > >>>>>>> that it easily meets your needs as well our overall
goals:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 1. At EclipseCon there is a bulletin board. Beside
> > >>>>>> the bulletin
> > >>>>>>> board are blank sign-up sheets.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 2. You arrive at the conference, you go to the
> > >>>>>> bulletin board,
> > >>>>>>> you take a sign-up sheet and write "CDT" in
> > >>>> the title box.
> > >>>>>>> You thumb tack it on the bulletin board.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 3. During the day, interested people sign up on
> > >>>> the sheets on
> > >>>>>>> the board for the BOFs they are interested in.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 4. At 5pm, the organizers (that's me or one of the
> > >> other
> > >>>>>>> volunteers) looks at the attendance of each
> > >>>> of the BOFs on
> > >>>>>>> the board and assigns them to rooms by writing, in
> > >> big
> > >>>>>>> letters, the room name (e.g., Seaside B) on the
> > >> page.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 5. After enjoying the free food at the reception
> > >>>>>> that evening,
> > >>>>>>> people wander by the bulletin board to learn
> > >>>> which room
> > >>>>>>> their BOF is assigned to.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This process meets the goals:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> * People can decided to meet in a BOF in
> > >>>> advance or at the
> > >>>>>>> last minute. If you want to schedule it in
> > >>>> advance, simple
> > >>>>>>> agree amongst all your colleagues that you are
> > >>>>>> going to have
> > >>>>>>> a BOF on, say, Tuesday night. Put up a sign-up
> > >> sheet,
> > >>>>>>> sign-up, and get assigned a room. The BOF I'm
> > >>>> involved in
> > >>>>>>> (Language Toolkits and Universal IDEs) is doing
> > >>>>>> exactly that
> > >>>>>>> - see the announcement that Chris Laffra posted to
> > >> the
> > >>>>>>> eclipse.eclipsecon newsgroup.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> * Simple physical sheets of paper are easy. Without
> > >>>>>> having to
> > >>>>>>> write any complex programs, they allow us to
> > >>>>>> easily allocate
> > >>>>>>> rooms by size and they are easy for the people
> > >>>>>> attending the
> > >>>>>>> conference to sign up on and to read.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> * Allocating rooms at 5pm the day-of allows us
> > >>>> to make the
> > >>>>>>> best use of space. There are plenty of rooms,
> > >>>> but some of
> > >>>>>>> them are very small and I'd hate to have to
> > >>>> pre-guess the
> > >>>>>>> size of each BOF. I know I don't know whether CDT
> > >>>>>> or WTP is
> > >>>>>>> going to draw a larger crowd. This way we will
know.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> * Not pre-scheduling BOFs prevents vendors from
> > >>>>>> using them as
> > >>>>>>> advertising rooms because they can't say "come by
> > >>>>>> room X at
> > >>>>>>> time Y to hear us talk about product Z". It
> > >>>> allows you and
> > >>>>>>> your colleagues to do so, because you are
> > >> collectively
> > >>>>>>> agreeing to meet, but it prevents sales
> > >>>> pitches because in
> > >>>>>>> those cases there is no collective agreement -
it's
> > >> a
> > >>>>>>> one-way communication.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> So, by all means, please schedule a CDT BOF. I look
> > >>>> forward to
> > >>>>>>> your having a really great time at the conference, and
> > >>>>>> I apologize
> > >>>>>>> if this mechanism was not explained to you before.
> > >>>> Mea culpa...
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Bjorn Freeman-Benson
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> EclipseCon Organizing Chair
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> cdt-dev mailing list
> > >>>>>> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> cdt-dev mailing list
> > >>>>> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> cdt-dev mailing list
> > >>>> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> cdt-dev mailing list
> > >>> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> cdt-dev mailing list
> > >> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > cdt-dev mailing list
> > > cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > cdt-dev mailing list
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> > > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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