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RE: [wtp-dev] Service Interface & Data Types Editor Contribution Proposal
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Hi Emil, I've posted some feedback on the proposal to the WTP Incubator forum. See [1] for the link.
For better context, I decided to post here my thoughts on the comparison between the two sets of editors. I have marked my comments with <vb> in your note below. I'm sure we'll continue to discuss some of these topics either in bugzilla or incubator forum.
Cheers,
Valentin Baciu
WTP XML Web Services Tools
[1] http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=174036&start=0&S=fb41099d99261d649ab5660e53930375
![Inactive hide details for "Simeonov, Emil" ---08/03/2010 05:21:06 AM---Hi Keith, First of all thank you for your interest in ou]()
"Simeonov, Emil" ---08/03/2010 05:21:06 AM---Hi Keith, First of all thank you for your interest in our proposal!
From: "Simeonov, Emil" <emil.simeonov@xxxxxxx>
To: Keith Chong/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
Cc: "wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx" <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 08/03/2010 05:21 AM
Subject: RE: [wtp-dev] Service Interface & Data Types Editor Contribution Proposal
Sent by: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Keith,
First of all thank you for your interest in our proposal!
Indeed we have thoroughly evaluated the WTP WSDL and XSD editors (as well as the Netbeans ones and some more) in respect to different functional and non-functional aspects numerous times.
I would like to emphasize on the fact that the WTP and the proposed editors are NOT competing in any way and they could be used when appropriately, since all of the editors work with standard artifacts (*.xsd and *.wsdl files). Hence once the usage of the existing WTP editors is necessary one could always switch to them and vice versa.
Yet we also have quite a lot of stakeholders’ feedback regarding what they need, which we have taken into consideration before going for the design and development of brand new WSDL and XML Schema editors.
A short summary of our findings as an extract from the latest comparison with the WTP editors could be found below.
WTP WSDL 1.1 & Service Interface editors
Development Productivity
1. Representation of WSDL 1.1 specifics
a. WTP WSDL editor: exposes all WSDL 1.1 technical details
<vb>
The graphical WTP WSDL editor hides some of the WSDL 1.1 complexity, in particular
- the binding structure is abstracted by default on the graphical canvas
- the WSDL messages and imports are only shown in the outline view
</vb>
b. Service Interface editor: hides WSDL 1.1 complexity
<vb>
My experience shows that real life artifacts are complex, and that users will sooner or later reach for the full featured editor.
</vb>
2. Number of open editor / views necessary to edit a WSDL 1.1 document, i.e. navigation
a. WTP WSDL editor: 3 (+1 editor instance for each data-type which is being viewed in details)
<vb>
The editor/outline view/properties arrangement is typical of most Eclipse based graphical editors.
</vb>
b. Service Interface editor: 1 (using master-details UI design pattern)
3. Number of ‘clicks’ to do modeling, i.e. time spent
a. Conclusion: Considering the total number of open views and editor instances as well as the allocation of properties in the WTP WSDL 1.1 editor the number of clicks necessary for modeling is much higher than what is necessary in the Service Interface editor
<vb>
The current graphical editor has gone through number of user experience and acceptance tests as well.
My understanding is that the editor tries to provide good access to the most edited object properties. For example, the graphical WSDL editor provides "on the canvas" direct editing for most component names. If we consider editing a component's documentation, the one click to navigate to the documentation tab in the properties view is dwarfed anyway by the number of keystrokes to enter the documentation. We have discussed providing hyperlinks on the graphical figures to allow the user to quickly navigate to the documentation tab.
</vb>
4. Error detection
a. WTP WSDL editor: Optional batch validation supported. Some values could be invalid as entered by users and others cannot (E.g. An operation name could not be altered in an invalid way. A part name could be modified in an invalid way without any warning.). No error decoration in the design (UI modeling) parts of the editor.
<vb>
It would be great if you could elaborate on the limitations by opening defects/enhancements in bugzilla.
Error markers in the graphical view is a longstanding wish. We have this https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=158620 opened for the schema editor. We'll need a similar one for WSDL.
</vb>
b. Service Interface editor: Supports 2 ways of error detection in consistent manner, i.e. Live (in-place partial) and batch (save / load thorough model) validation. Supports problem reporting in both the UI modeling parts and the Eclipse Problems view.
<vb>
Is the new editor introducing a new validator? Does it provide as you type validation in the source view? Are the problems validation annotations/ markers used for marking field level problems?
</vb>
5. Isolation of single entities (Filtering) when manipulating large documents
a. WTP WSDL editor: Not supported
b. Service Interface editor: Supported for all visualized entities
<vb>
This is a valid enhancement request.
</vb>
Functional Completeness
1. Basic WSDL modeling (Add / Remove / Alter PortTypes, Operations, Set types / elements for operation arguments, modification of inline XSD entities, usage of externally defined XSD entities)
a. Conclusion: Both editors allow for such kind of manipulations
2. Refactoring capabilities
3. Technical modeling (bindings, services)
a. WTP WSDL editor: Partially supported (re-generation of bindings and services content necessary)
<vb>
See https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=250420 for automatic binding regeneration on save.
</vb>
b. Service Interface editor: Not supported by design (keep them in sync with PortTypes)
<vb>
I'm not sure I understand exactly how this "keep them in synch" is going to work? How is the user specifying the type of binding to use?
</vb>
WTP XML Schema & Data Types editors
Development Productivity
1. Representation of XSD specifics
a. WTP XML Schema editor: exposes all XSD technical details
b. Data Types editor: hides XSD complexity
<vb>
Real life schemas (industry standards) are complex (for ex. use choices, any elements, substitution groups). Is the Data Types editor tolerating well such complex schemas?
</vb>
2. Number of open editor / views necessary to edit a WSDL 1.1 document, i.e. navigation
c. WTP XML Schema editor: 3 (+1 editor instance for each data-type which is being viewed in details)
d. Data Types editor: 1 (using master-details UI design pattern)
<vb>
Similar to WSDL editor.
The properties view tab provides for progressive disclosure of information. Most users only use the General tab, which shows the most commonly used properties.
I'm not sure that having the object properties in the properties view or in the right side of the editor (master/detail) is such a big conceptual difference.
</vb>
3. Number of ‘clicks’ to do modeling, i.e. time spent
a. Conclusion: Considering the total number of open views and editor instances as well as the allocation of properties in the WTP XML Schema editor the number of clicks necessary for modeling is much higher than what is necessary in the Data Types editor
<vb>
The graphical XSD editor provides direct editing and menu shortcuts for most common actions directly on the canvas (editing the name, setting the multiplicity and browsing for type/element/attribute references).
</vb>
4. Error detection
a. WTP XML Schema editor: Optional batch validation supported. No error decoration in the design (UI modeling) parts of the editor
b. Data Types editor: Supports 2 ways of error detection in consistent manner, i.e. Live (in-place partial) and batch (save / load thorough model) validation. Supports problem reporting in both the UI modeling parts and the Eclipse Problems view.
<vb>
Error markers in the graphical view is a longstanding wish. See https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=158620.
</vb>
5. Isolation of single entities (Filtering) when manipulating large documents
a. WTP XML Schema editor: Not supported
b. Data Types editor: Supported for all visualized entities
<vb>
This is a valid enhancement request.
</vb>
Functional Completeness
1. Basic XSD modeling (Add / Remove / Alter entities with global scope, i.e. Element declarations, attributes, complex / simple types definitions; Add / Remove / Alter entities with local scope, i.e. element declarations / references, attribute declarations / references, re-use of externally defined XSD entities)
a. Conclusion: Both editors allow for such kind of manipulations
2. Advanced modeling (Model Groups, Simple Type Definitions with complex content, anonymous type definitions, etc. handling)
a. WTP XML Schema editor: explicitly modeled in technical manner
b. Data Types editor: hides complexity (source editing possible for expert users, who would like to know all the details)
3. Refactoring capabilities
a. WTP XML Schema editor: supports XSD entity renaming, inheritance, nillable, cardinalities, constraints, switching among local and global scope of XSD entities
b. Data Types editor: supports XSD entity renaming, inheritance, nillable, cardinalities, constraints, copy & paste of XSD entities
<vb>
WTP provides an XSD/WSDL search and refactoring framework which is used for the rename refactorings framework. There are ideas for new search and refactorings features:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=121234
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=158464
</vb>
Please, let me know in case you would need further information.
Kind regards,
Emil Simeonov
Emil Simeonov
Development Architect
SOA I Foundation & Studio
SAP Labs Bulgaria
136 A, Tsar Boris III Blv.
1618 Sofia, Bulgaria
T + 359 2 9157 602
E emil.simeonov@xxxxxxx
From: Keith Chong [mailto:kchong@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, 3. August 2010 06:54
To: Simeonov, Emil
Cc: wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Service Interface & Data Types Editor Contribution Proposal
Hi Emil,
Interesting proposal. Have you tried out the existing WSDL and XML Schema Editors currently in WTP ? For example, see: http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Introduction_to_the_WSDL_Editor
Regards,
Keith Chong
WTP Web Services
| From: | "Simeonov, Emil" <emil.simeonov@xxxxxxx> |
| To: | "wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx" <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
| Date: | 08/02/2010 07:12 AM |
| Subject: | [wtp-dev] Service Interface & Data Types Editor Contribution Proposal |
| Sent by: | wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx |
Hi guys,
Herewith we declare our will and readiness to contribute the Service Interface & Data Types Editor as part of the Eclipse WTP Incubator project.
In short these are a WSDL 1.1 and a XSD editors, which aim to provide exceptional ease of use, development productivity and simplicity while still being powerful when it comes to the development of such artifacts as part of a SOA / BPM / Web Service deployments.
The detailed project proposal can be found and reviewed here.
http://wiki.eclipse.org/WTP/Service_Interface_and_Data_Types_Editors/Proposal
Kind regards,
Emil Simeonov
Emil Simeonov
Development Architect
SOA I Foundation & Studio
SAP Labs Bulgaria
136 A, Tsar Boris III Blv.
1618 Sofia, Bulgaria
T + 359 2 9157 602
E emil.simeonov@xxxxxxx
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