Re: [wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

[Lawrence Mandel <lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks for the pointer Amy. I'd forgotten
all about that page. The descriptions do need to be updated (there's still
a reference to WSVT!) but I don't have access. 

Arthur and David - Do either of you
have access (in the committer tools) to change component descriptions for
WTP bugzilla?

Lawrence Mandel

Software Developer
IBM Rational Software
Phone: 905 - 413 - 3814   Fax: 905 - 413 - 4920
lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx

Amy Wu <amywu@xxxxxxxxxx>
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05/05/2006 01:31 PM

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Subject	Re: [wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

> Then some good writer, like you, creates an easy-to-understand document
that describes how to guess which component is behind the bug. Maybe even
include a little decision diagram. 

More descriptive than this?  https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/describecomponents.cgi?product=Web%20Tools
Granted, I don't know how obvious it is for bug reporters to click on the
"Component" link when you are viewing/opening a bug, but maybe
that document should just be beefed up more? 

______________________________
Amy Wu
Structured Source Editor
919.254.0299, T/L 444.0299
amywu@xxxxxxxxxx

Arthur Ryman <ryman@xxxxxxxxxx>
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05/05/2006 11:54 AM

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Subject	Re: [wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

Lawrence, 

Here's what I was thinking. When a user assigns a bug to the wrong component,
we move it to the right component and paste in a boilerplate comment like:

"Thank you for reporting this bug. It has been moved to the correct
component. For guidance on how to guess which component is associated with
a bug, 
please refer to http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/HowToGuessComponents.html"

Then some good writer, like you, creates an easy-to-understand document
that describes how to guess which component is behind the bug. Maybe even
include a little decision diagram. 

Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division

blog: http://ryman.eclipsedevelopersjournal.com/
phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@xxxxxxx

Lawrence Mandel/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
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05/05/2006 11:20 AM

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Subject	Re: [wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

>4. Triaging is just part of the problem. There are plenty of triaged
bugs that have been opened for a long time. How should we maintain the
hygiene of bugzilla? 

Great point Arthur. WTP is currently sitting with 1984 unconfirmed, new,
assigned and reopened bugs. The 80 from WST and JST don't seem like our
biggest issue at this point. 

>5. Is there anything we can do to help users assign bugs to the right
component? Maybe add a boilerplate comment explaining how to do it. Maybe
add >something to the Web site that explains the components? A decision
tree? 

I don't think there's much we can do in the bugzilla interface aside from
opening a bug against bugzilla. I don't think listing the components with
descriptions on another page will serve much use. (Are users really going
to go to another page to read the description?) If these components continue
to be a problem and Arthur and Naci do not have the time I'll volunteer
to monitor and triage bugs opened against WST and JST.

Lawrence Mandel

Software Developer
IBM Rational Software
Phone: 905 - 413 - 3814   Fax: 905 - 413 - 4920
lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx

Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
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05/05/2006 10:36 AM

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Subject	Re: [wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

John, 

I don't recall this issue being discussed before (but I have a very selective
memory). Maybe the problem was that no one was assigned to those subproject
level components, after which Naci and I got assigned? In any case, before
we go deleting components, I'd like us to come up with answers to the following:

1. How to we handle bugs that really do have subproject scope?
2. If a component is deleted, what happens to the bugs that were previously
assigned to it? 
3. How should we ensure that all inboxes are being triaged? Is that something
to add to the weekly telecons? 
4. Triaging is just part of the problem. There are plenty of triaged bugs
that have been opened for a long time. How should we maintain the hygiene
of bugzilla? 
5. Is there anything we can do to help users assign bugs to the right component?
Maybe add a boilerplate comment explaining how to do it. Maybe add something
to the Web site that explains the components? A decision tree?

Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division

blog: http://ryman.eclipsedevelopersjournal.com/
phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@xxxxxxx

John Lanuti <jlanuti@xxxxxxxxxx>
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05/05/2006 10:19 AM

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Subject	Re: [wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

Arthur, 

This is not the first time this has happened or the first time we have
suggested removal of these ambiguous queues.  Make no mistake, it
is a HUGE deal when ~80 bugs go unnoticed until when we are in release
candidate mode.  We were specifically told not to monitor this Web
Standard Tools queue because we were assured the defects would be triaged
accordingly.  So, here we are...again.  

Proposal:  We use wst.web instead, and drop Web Standard Tools so
this can be proactively avoided. 

Reality:  This will never be an issue again because now I know it
is incumbent upon me to include this queue in my queries and I and other
diligent committers will keep it up to date. 


John Lanuti
Software Engineer, IBM Rational
jlanuti@xxxxxxxxxx
t/l 441-7861

"I know this lady way down in my country.
She is so pretty that my eyes throw disguises at me.
Now we will sit and we'll wonder about our future,
But now I'm thinking that today sounds fine to me."  - Of A Revolution

Arthur Ryman <ryman@xxxxxxxxxx>
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05/05/2006 09:33 AM

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Subject	Re: [wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

Chuck, 

The subproject leads own those components. I own the WST one. I thought
I was keeping up, but was shocked to see so many untriaged. I don't know
how they slipped by. 

Many users don't know which component to assign a defect to so they just
use the subproject. Also, there are some cases where a bug affects an entire
subproject, or even the entire project. 

I suggest we keep these, but watch eachother's backs. We should routinely
do a query on the inboxes and route them to the right components.

Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division

blog: http://ryman.eclipsedevelopersjournal.com/
phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@xxxxxxx

Chuck Bridgham <cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx>
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05/04/2006 05:05 PM

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Subject	Re: [wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

No that should be removed too....    I would rather have the
originator guess wrong, and see it moved to the right component, then have
it sit there unseen. 

- Chuck 

Rational J2EE Tooling Team Lead
IBM Software Lab - Research Triangle Park, NC
Email:  cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx
Phone: 919-254-1848 (T/L: 444)

Lawrence Mandel <lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx>
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05/04/2006 04:58 PM

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Subject	Re: [wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

If we choose to remove this component is there any value to keeping the
"J2EE Standard Tools" component? 

Lawrence Mandel

Software Developer
IBM Rational Software
Phone: 905 - 413 - 3814   Fax: 905 - 413 - 4920
lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx

Chuck Bridgham <cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx>
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05/04/2006 04:41 PM

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Subject	[wtp-dev] Untriaged defects....

It was brought to our attention this week that we have many untriaged defects
sitting in various "inbox's" 
A Majority of these were in the "Web Standard Tools" component
where there is no clear owner, and it was brought up in the past this component
should be removed from bugzilla. 

Unless we have active triaging on this component, I vote to remove this
component ASAP, to avoid this situation in the future.  Many of these
defects should have been openned in components that I own, and
we had no idea they existed. 

I want to thank John Lanuti for triaging many many defects in this component
today, but we strongly vote to terminate this abandoned component.

Thanks - Chuck 

Rational J2EE Tooling Team Lead
IBM Software Lab - Research Triangle Park, NC
Email:  cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx
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