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[technology-pmc] Re: Sapphire draft proposal
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Konstantin, when you're ready, please resubmit the Sapphire proposal
using the templates I sent earlier. Then we can write the Declaration
and get the proposal out to the community. I've requested the forum
creation. Thanks.
Anne Jacko
emo@xxxxxxxxxxx
On Jun 15, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Wayne Beaton wrote:
+1
Wayne
mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
So personally I think this is ready to go to proposal. If a lively
conversation starts on the forum along the same lines we've been
discussing today, that's fine with me.
Mike Milinkovich
mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx
+1.613.220.3223 (mobile)
-----Original Message-----
From: Konstantin Komissarchik <konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:02:24 To: <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <technology-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <pieter.humphrey@xxxxxxxxxx
>; <emo@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <greg.stachnick@xxxxxxxxxx>; <teri.whitaker@xxxxxxxxxx
>
Subject: Re: Sapphire draft proposal
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your comments.
Let me assure everyone that this is not a code dump. Oracle
invested several years developing this technology and it is in
active and growing use in our Eclipse-based products. We want to
contribute this technology to Eclipse Foundation because we think
the community can benefit from it. We have done some amount of work
to seek potential adopters and have a few leads, but found that to
be difficult without being able to point people at a IP-safe code
respository and samples. Once the project is established, we plan
to actively seek adopters of this technology and will likely
ourselves contribute UI to other Eclipse projects written using
Sapphire.
Personally, I am suspicious of the explanation that EMF is too
general or too hard to
learn. If you don't like EMF, wrap it with a DSL via Xtext.
The suspicion is understandable. It is hard to explain everything
in a short project proposal. We will be able to explain more
clearly once we are able to make a code contribution.
Xtext is a really cool technology but only simplifies use of an
existing model. It does nothing to make it easier to create models,
which is what we needed.
We also seem to be growing a plethora of projects focused on
simplifying
client-side application construction (Riena, Scout). Have you
looked at
those projects as potential consumers of Sapphire?
We are familiar with these projects, but they all operate on quite
different vertical vectors and are solving different usecases. I
have not considered these projects as consumers of Sapphire, but
anything is possible.
- Konstantin
----- Original Message -----
From: mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx
Cc: pieter.humphrey@xxxxxxxxxx, teri.whitaker@xxxxxxxxxx, greg.stachnick@xxxxxxxxxx
, technology-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx, wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx, emo@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 7:13:52 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RE: Sapphire draft proposal
I actually don't have any comments on the proposal itself. As far
as I am
concerned, it can go live with the edits proposed by Gunnar on the
PMC
thread.
I do have some worries, but ones which will have to be solved by
the project
once it's underway.
I have concerns about introducing another modeling framework.
Personally, I
am suspicious of the explanation that EMF is too general or too
hard to
learn. If you don't like EMF, wrap it with a DSL via Xtext. That
certainly
seems like a cheaper and more consistent solution than writing and
*maintaining* a whole modeling framework.
We also seem to be growing a plethora of projects focused on
simplifying
client-side application construction (Riena, Scout). Have you
looked at
those projects as potential consumers of Sapphire?
But my biggest concern is how small and Oracle-specific the
committer team
is. Increasing community and diversity on this project will be key
to its
success. Do you have the commitment from Oracle to resource this
project for
the long-term? This is an attempt to create a real Eclipse project,
not a
code dump, right?
Mike Milinkovich
Office: +1.613.224.9461 x228
Mobile: +1.613.220.3223
mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Jacko [mailto:emo@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: June-11-10 9:22 PM
To: Mike Milinkovich; Wayne Beaton
Cc: Konstantin Komissarchik; pieter.humphrey@xxxxxxxxxx Humphrey;
teri.whitaker@xxxxxxxxxx; greg.stachnick@xxxxxxxxxx; Technology PMC
Subject: Sapphire draft proposal
Mike, Wayne, please review and comment on this proposal from
Konstantin.
He
has also sent it to the Tech PMC for their comments.
Thanks.
Anne Jacko
emo@xxxxxxxxxxx
--
Wayne Beaton, The Eclipse Foundation
http://www.eclipse.org