Scott,
now that we’ve learned about each other’s point of view and that we
agree that we’re just looking at the same
thing from two different angles: How would you like to see the
(excellent) work that you’re doing in ECF to be reflected
in the SOA Initiative’s roadmap? Where do you see fit for the
technology that you’d like to bring to the party? The roadmap
is a public document, open for amendments and improvements -- feel
free to bring in your point of view!
Cheers,
Oliver
Am 04.08.09 22:56 schrieb "Scott Lewis" unter <slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
Hi Oliver,
Although I agree that to some SOA means 'enterprise SOA, web services,
strong governance' and to others it means 'peer-to-peer, dynamic
discovery, and java remoting', I happen to think that this is a
distinction without a difference...i.e. it's a distinction that's made
on the basis of the characteristics of the technology consumers (large
vs small companies) rather than characteristics of the architecture or
relevant technologies (e.g. remoting/distribution, messaging,
discovery,
security, etc) that make up service-oriented architecture. True, the
consumers can differ in their needs/requirements, but at least
with SOA
I see a lot of commonality at the technical level.
WRT standardization, ECF is fully committed to implementing and
participating in the work by the OSGi groups...e.g. the Enterprise
Experts group's work on distributed OSGi services, use of OSGi
services,
and modularity/componentry through bundles, as well as management of
Equinox runtimes (i.e. by supporting p2, as well as doing work on
remote
management of OSGi/Equinox runtimes...which we are already doing). We
have a committer that participates in the Enterprise Experts
group, and
are also getting contributions for RFC119 impl from SAP...which
also is
a member of the EE group.
We would be happy to have this work be a part of an Eclipse
Foundation-based SOA initiative, and given that the OSGi standards and
technologies are relevant to SOA (whether 'enterprise' or
'peer-to-peer'), I think that such work *does* logically belong as
part
of anything based upon Equinox/OSGi/Eclipse that calls itself
'service-oriented architecture'. As for extending the roadmap, I would
suggest that the roadmap be enhanced to include OSGi-based
service-oriented architecture (e.g. use of OSGi services/service
registry, Distributed OSGi/RFC119, Equinox mgmt/provisioning, etc).
As for committing to deliver, we are certainly already on that bus WRT
RFC119 support for ECF 3.0/Galileo release...and will continue to add
onto this implementation (i.e. more discovery and distribution
providers, tracking/implementing changes in RFC119 spec as they occur,
etc). Also, we are/will continue with building other services such as
EventAdmin...see
http://wiki.eclipse.org/Distributed_EventAdmin_Service)
<http://wiki.eclipse.org/Distributed_EventAdmin_Service%29>
and integration with other OSGi systems such as DS:
http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/2009/08/04/remote-declarative-services/.
So in summary we see our current and future contributions around
distributed OSGI/RFC119 as our best way to commit to deliver value for
service-oriented architecture consumers.
RE: SCA and RFC119 not being exclusive...yes I agree...I don't mean to
imply otherwise.
Scott
Oliver Wolf wrote:
> Scott,
>
> as we all know very well, SOA means different things to different
> people. While we all agree on the basic tenets of SOA (loose
coupling,
> interoperability, reuse etc.), the technical approaches differ. The
> main drivers behind the SOA initiative come from an “enterprise SOA,
> web services, strong governance” kind of background, while ECF seems
> to be more on the “peer-to-peer, dynamic discovery, java remoting”
> side of things. That’s perfectly fine and we absolutely don’t want to
> exclude this part of the universe — it’s just not in the center
of the
> IWG founding members’ attention. If you, or the ECF project for that
> matter, wish to extend the roadmap AND commit to deliver, feel
free to
> do so. That’s why we’ve put the draft version up for public
discussion.
>
> BTW, in my opinion, SCA and RFC119 are not mutually exclusive. RFC119
> could be a good way to implement the SCA wire in OSGi-based SCA
> runtimes, for instance.
>
> Cheers,
> Oliver
>
>
> Hi Ricco,
>
> RE: the proposed roadmap: I'm a little surprised that
> there doesn't seem
> to be any mention of OSGi standards work on
> distribution/remoting (i.e.
> RFC119) and the associated Runtime project work (i.e.
> Equinox and ECF)
> on implementing those OSGi 4.2 specs.
>
> Things like service registrys, brokers, esbs/messaging,
> etc are
> certainly mentioned in the roadmap, but there isn't any
> connection (that
> I can detect) to whats going on in the OSGi
> standardization world in
> terms of specification (OSGi 4.2/Service Registry/RFC 119)
> or Equinox
> implemention of specs (in ECF 3.0 and beyond).
>
> OSGi services, remoting, distribution, discovery,
> messaging is where ECF
> is focusing it's attention WRT service-oriented
> architecture, and this
> roadmap doesn't have anything about those (OSGi/Equinox)
> pieces at all
> as far as I can tell. This seems like a large omission to me.
>
> I understand the desire to stick closely to SCA (for
> example), but it's
> pretty clear (to me at least) that OSGi 4.2/RFC119 is
> going to be an
> important way forward into SOA for OSGi-based
> runtimes...and so it seems
> to me that a reasonably comprehensive SOA initiative at
> the Eclipse
> Foundation would want to include that. Is that incorrect?
>
> Scott
>
>
> Ricco Deutscher wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> Would it be possible to refocus the discussion to the
> actual SOA content?
> I’d love to get your feedback to the proposed roadmap.
> Especially I would like to hear from you what ECF
> could bring to the
> table.
>
> Please find attached the latest version 0.3 from Zsolt
> including the
> Guiding Principles for the roadmap the group agreed upon.
>
> Best,
> Ricco
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> *Oliver Wolf
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*Oliver Wolf
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Tel.: +49 228-182 19059
Fax: +49 228-182 19193
Mobil: +49 160-98931313
_oliver.wolf@xxxxxxxxx
_
*SOPERA GmbH - Open Source SOA
*Subscription Services, Support & Maintenance, Training,
Technical SOA Consulting & Customized Development
*www.sopera.de <**_http://www.sopera.de/_>
*SOPERA GmbH · Geschäftsführer: Dr. Ricco Deutscher, Harald Weimer,
Peter Spiegel
Sträßchensweg 10 · 53113 Bonn · Handelsregister: Bonn HRB 15336
Hohenlindnerstraße 11b · 85622 München
Vertraulichkeitshinweis: Diese Nachricht und jeder übermittelte Anhang
beinhaltet vertrauliche Informationen und ist nur für die Personen
oder das Unternehmen bestimmt, an welche sie tatsächlich gerichtet
ist. Sollten Sie nicht der Bestimmungsempfänger sein, weisen wir Sie
darauf hin, dass die Verbreitung, das (auch teilweise) Kopieren sowie
der Gebrauch der empfangenen E-Mail und der darin enthaltenen
Informationen gesetzlich verboten ist und gegebenenfalls
Schadensersatzpflichten auslösen kann. Sollten Sie diese Nachricht
aufgrund eines Übermittlungsfehlers erhalten haben, bitten wir Sie,
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