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Re: [soa-iwg] ECF and SOA initiative 
Hi Oliver,
Although I agree that to some SOA means 'enterprise SOA, web services, strong governance' and to others it means 'peer-to-peer, dynamic discovery, and java remoting', I happen to think that this is a distinction without a difference...i.e. it's a distinction that's made on the basis of the characteristics of the technology consumers (large vs small companies) rather than characteristics of the architecture or relevant technologies (e.g. remoting/distribution, messaging, discovery, security, etc) that make up service-oriented architecture. True, the consumers can differ in their needs/requirements, but at least with SOA I see a lot of commonality at the technical level.
WRT standardization, ECF is fully committed to implementing and participating in the work by the OSGi groups...e.g. the Enterprise Experts group's work on distributed OSGi services, use of OSGi services, and modularity/componentry through bundles, as well as management of Equinox runtimes (i.e. by supporting p2, as well as doing work on remote management of OSGi/Equinox runtimes...which we are already doing). We have a committer that participates in the Enterprise Experts group, and are also getting contributions for RFC119 impl from SAP...which also is a member of the EE group.
We would be happy to have this work be a part of an Eclipse Foundation-based SOA initiative, and given that the OSGi standards and technologies are relevant to SOA (whether 'enterprise' or 'peer-to-peer'), I think that such work *does* logically belong as part of anything based upon Equinox/OSGi/Eclipse that calls itself 'service-oriented architecture'. As for extending the roadmap, I would suggest that the roadmap be enhanced to include OSGi-based service-oriented architecture (e.g. use of OSGi services/service registry, Distributed OSGi/RFC119, Equinox mgmt/provisioning, etc).
As for committing to deliver, we are certainly already on that bus WRT RFC119 support for ECF 3.0/Galileo release...and will continue to add onto this implementation (i.e. more discovery and distribution providers, tracking/implementing changes in RFC119 spec as they occur, etc). Also, we are/will continue with building other services such as EventAdmin...see http://wiki.eclipse.org/Distributed_EventAdmin_Service) and integration with other OSGi systems such as DS: http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/2009/08/04/remote-declarative-services/. So in summary we see our current and future contributions around distributed OSGI/RFC119 as our best way to commit to deliver value for service-oriented architecture consumers.
RE: SCA and RFC119 not being exclusive...yes I agree...I don't mean to imply otherwise. 

Scott

Oliver Wolf wrote:

Scott,
as we all know very well, SOA means different things to different people. While we all agree on the basic tenets of SOA (loose coupling, interoperability, reuse etc.), the technical approaches differ. The main drivers behind the SOA initiative come from an “enterprise SOA, web services, strong governance” kind of background, while ECF seems to be more on the “peer-to-peer, dynamic discovery, java remoting” side of things. That’s perfectly fine and we absolutely don’t want to exclude this part of the universe — it’s just not in the center of the IWG founding members’ attention. If you, or the ECF project for that matter, wish to extend the roadmap AND commit to deliver, feel free to do so. That’s why we’ve put the draft version up for public discussion.
BTW, in my opinion, SCA and RFC119 are not mutually exclusive. RFC119 could be a good way to implement the SCA wire in OSGi-based SCA runtimes, for instance. 

Cheers,
Oliver


            Hi Ricco,

            RE: the proposed roadmap: I'm a little surprised that
            there doesn't seem
            to be any mention of OSGi standards work on
            distribution/remoting (i.e.
            RFC119) and the associated Runtime project work (i.e.
            Equinox and ECF)
            on implementing those OSGi 4.2 specs.

            Things like service registrys, brokers, esbs/messaging,
            etc are
            certainly mentioned in the roadmap, but there isn't any
            connection (that
            I can detect) to whats going on in the OSGi
            standardization world in
            terms of specification (OSGi 4.2/Service Registry/RFC 119)
            or Equinox
            implemention of specs (in ECF 3.0 and beyond).

            OSGi services, remoting, distribution, discovery,
            messaging is where ECF
            is focusing it's attention WRT service-oriented
            architecture, and this
            roadmap doesn't have anything about those (OSGi/Equinox)
            pieces at all
            as far as I can tell. This seems like a large omission to me.

            I understand the desire to stick closely to SCA (for
            example), but it's
            pretty clear (to me at least) that OSGi 4.2/RFC119 is
            going to be an
            important way forward into SOA for OSGi-based
            runtimes...and so it seems
            to me that a reasonably comprehensive SOA initiative at
            the Eclipse
            Foundation would want to include that. Is that incorrect?

            Scott


            Ricco Deutscher wrote:

                Scott,

                Would it be possible to refocus the discussion to the
                actual SOA content?
                I’d love to get your feedback to the proposed roadmap.
                Especially I would like to hear from you what ECF
                could bring to the
                table.

                Please find attached the latest version 0.3 from Zsolt
                including the
                Guiding Principles for the roadmap the group agreed upon.

                Best,
                Ricco

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*Oliver Wolf
*Lead Architect Runtime Platform
Tel.: +49 228-182 19059
Fax: +49 228-182 19193
Mobil: +49 160-98931313
_oliver.wolf@xxxxxxxxx
_
*SOPERA GmbH - Open Source SOA
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