My posting wasn't directed to you - I knew you have
a GUI builder - but to those who think that GUI builders are trivial
applications. Since you charge for yours, I assume you understand it is
non-trivial. ;-}
Thanks for the link. I will
check it out. But since you have already told me what I wanted to
know...
There are GUI builders that generate source code
and those that don't (like yours). My feeling has always been that
round-tripping is a *requirement* and if you want to generate source code then
you open yourself up to having to round-trip from the source (or object) code.
However, if you don't generate source code you are free to round-trip from
whatever intermediate representation you have chosen. Either way satisfies the
requirement. One of them (the source code path) is much harder than the
other.
Your GUI builder generates "property resource
files". So it is in the long and honorable tradition of GUI builders like
NextStep, Apple's Project/Interface builder, even Visual Studio. Personally, I
think this is a good approach.
What I don't understand is why you started this
thread? There has to be some failing of either SWT or your descriptive
techniques that leads you to think that adapting Conga to SWT would be hard.
Specifically, what are they?
Bob
PS The word 'paradigm' tends to set me off.
;-}
Lane Sharman wrote:
Bob
Foster wrote:
So where's your GUI builder? (Or Scott's, for
that matter? ;-) http://opendoors.com/conga Download
it for a free 30 trial. Also, be sure to read the link on the page and in the
distro, "A Guide to Using Conga with a Team of Graphic Artists and Java
Programmers". I believe Conga is completely production grade. Please be sure
to drop me a note with any issues offline. Really looking forward to working
with you.
I'm not seriously challenging that you could
make one. I just want to look at the GUI builder that results.
The issue isn't whether you can make a GUI
builder for SWT. You can make a GUI builder for any library...provided that
you don't have to "round trip" (convert source/object code into the
representation used internally by the GUI
builder). Conga does not generate/manage code. This
is a failing of most GUI builders: they generate reams of code which
statically describe at design time the UI. Conga's Builder manages property
resource files. Code generation of a UI is basically an evil practice which
should be avoided given the dynamic nature of a UI.
I know from previous discussion that Scott
thinks this is not a requirement. I also know that many commercial GUI
builders do allow round-tripping. Enough so that many would consider this a
competitive requirement. Further, in my own apps, I
routinely rewrite the property resource files as easily as one would save a
data file to preserve user interaction state with the UI. Kinda hard to
rewrite and compile a a java source tree in a business app.
I am not
trying to brag or anything. In fact, Arthur Van Hoff and his team deserves all
the credit because this was his baby some time back and he is about an order
of magnitude superior to me as a programmer. It is just that Conga reflects
some really outstanding design features and, at this critical juncture in
Java's story, we need some help on the desktop to compete with Visual
Studio.
Kindest,
Lane
Bob
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Friday, January 17, 2003 1:08 PM
Subject:
RE: SWT History and Design Decisions (WAS: [platform-swt-dev] AWT Toolkit
using SWT (was: From Swing to SWT))
Its entirely
possible
its just that some designers make API, or at least paradigm
assumptions about the GUI library they design with, and sometimes those
assumptions are incompatible with an alternate GUI library.
Im not sure this is the case in the mentioned systems, but its
the only real impediment. Building a natively SWT-aware
builder is not particularly hard compared with another GUI
library.
Regards,
Christian.
-----Original
Message----- From: platform-swt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:platform-swt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jan
Venema Sent: Friday,
January 17, 2003 10:49 PM To: platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: SWT History and Design
Decisions (WAS: [platform-swt-dev] AWT Toolkit using SWT (was: From Swing
to SWT))
Can sombody please explain to me why
it is not possible to build a GUI designer in SWT. I've been following
the discussions here, but I haven't realy heard an answer. On the
properties pattern thing. Does setData(String key, Object value)
solve your problem? And since SWT is native widgets How does Visual
Studio do it? <!--[if
!supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]-->
--
Lane Sharman
http://opendoors.com Conga, GoodTimes and Application Hosting Services
http://opendoors.com/lane.pdf BIO
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