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Re: [platform-swt-dev] Re: SWT and Photon
|
... also no performance problems on Windows.
|---------+---------------------------------->
| | "Chris McKillop" |
| | <cdm@xxxxxxx> |
| | Sent by: |
| | platform-swt-dev-admin@|
| | eclipse.org |
| | |
| | |
| | 09/10/2002 06:56 PM |
| | Please respond to |
| | platform-swt-dev |
| | |
|---------+---------------------------------->
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| |
| To: <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
| cc: |
| Subject: Re: [platform-swt-dev] Re: SWT and Photon |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Or SWT running AWT as a browser plugin.
chris
--
Chris McKillop <cdm@xxxxxxx> "The faster I go, the behinder I get."
Software Engineer, QNX -- Lewis Carroll --
http://qnx.wox.org/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Northover" <Steve_Northover@xxxxxxx>
To: <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [platform-swt-dev] Re: SWT and Photon
>
> Eclipse running on SWT.
>
>
>
>
> "Chris McKillop"
> <cdm@xxxxxxx> To:
<platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: cc:
> platform-swt-dev-admin@ Subject: Re:
[platform-swt-dev] Re: SWT and Photon
> eclipse.org
>
>
> 09/10/02 03:52 PM
> Please respond to
> platform-swt-dev
>
>
>
>
>
> Maybe - but when everything but SWT operates wicked fast I tend to blame
> the
> odd-man-out. ;)
>
> chris
>
> --
> Chris McKillop <cdm@xxxxxxx> "The faster I go, the behinder I get."
> Software Engineer, QNX -- Lewis Carroll --
> http://qnx.wox.org/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Northover" <Steve_Northover@xxxxxxx>
> To: <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [platform-swt-dev] Re: SWT and Photon
>
>
> >
> > The other obvious thing that comes to mind is that the Windows native
> > widget implemenation and graphics drivers may be faster than other
> > platforms ... no flames please.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Chris McKillop"
> > <cdm@xxxxxxx> To:
> <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent by: cc:
> > platform-swt-dev-admin@ Subject: Re:
> [platform-swt-dev] Re: SWT and Photon
> > eclipse.org
> >
> >
> > 09/10/02 02:49 PM
> > Please respond to
> > platform-swt-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We shall see. I am studying the other bindings and, for the most part,
> you
> > are using things like the win32 API in the same way that an application
> > written in C would use the win32 API. This is not the case with the
> photon
> > bindings and is the only reason I can see that would account for the
> > difference in speed (ie: comparing win32 eclipse to a native app and
> > comparing photon eclipse to a native app). Photon Eclipse (UI speed
> wise)
> > is a lot slower then a native application so the SWT must be doing
> > something
> > wrong. A normal photon app never calls malloc/memmove/free to interact
> > with
> > Photon and so this makes it a prime "finger pointer".
> >
> > Let the testing being!
> >
> > chris
> >
> > --
> > Chris McKillop <cdm@xxxxxxx> "The faster I go, the behinder I
get."
> > Software Engineer, QNX -- Lewis Carroll --
> > http://qnx.wox.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Wilson" <Mike_Wilson@xxxxxxx>
> > To: <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 7:10 AM
> > Subject: Re: [platform-swt-dev] Re: SWT and Photon
> >
> >
> > > A ten percent change at the microscopic level is *guaranteed* not to
be
> > > noticeable in the feel of Eclipse. You need to be shooting for at
least
> > > double the performance unless it's an API which is called a ludicrous
> > > number of times. Even then, performance in the natives really is
almost
> > > never the bottleneck. That's why we are so adamant about the need for
> > > benchmarks.
> > >
> > > McQ.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Chris McKillop" <cdm@xxxxxxx>
> > > Sent by: platform-swt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > 09/09/2002 07:42 PM
> > > Please respond to platform-swt-dev
> > >
> > >
> > > To: <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > cc:
> > > Subject: Re: [platform-swt-dev] Re: SWT and Photon
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I'm going to apologize up front for posting this message to the
> > > > platform-swt-dev mailing list without asking you first. The
comments
> > you
> > > > were making are *exactly* the kind of discussion I would like to
see
> > > > happening on the mailing list, so I'm going to use this message as
a
> > > > seed...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Love to use the list - no worries at all. :)
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What you say below about the "Photon style guide" reminded me of
one
> of
> > > > the places where you have to watch out for "the bigger picture":
> > > > - there are some places in the eclipse UI where code was made to
> work
> > > a
> > > > particular way because we were trying to behave like the platform,
> > > > - and there are other places where the _eclipse_team's_ UI design
> > > people
> > > > specified a particular appearance,
> > > > - and there are other places where some of the text of the UI was
> > > > mandated by the legal people to have a certain look&feel (like the
> > About
> > > > dialog),
> > > > - and there are other places where the swt team made it work a
> > certain
> > > > way just 'cause it seemed like a good idea. :-)
> > > > When each of these cases is occurring is not always obvious.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yep - and I am not really doing anything drastic. In fact, I have
> > > examples
> > > online of the differences in the chnages I am doing:
> > >
> > > http://qnx.wox.org/swt/
> > >
> > > Please - anyone and everyone comment. Thus far it has primarily been
> > > picking which fonts are being used and how the Group widget is
created.
> > > The
> > > changes are somtimes subtle, so it is best to have both the before
and
> > the
> > > after shots side-by-side.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > As to the rest of what you've said, one of the fundamental design
> > > > philosophies of SWT is _no_custom_C_code_. When you talk about
adding
> > > new
> > > > JNI methods below, I got *very* nervous. At the very least, before
> you
> > > go
> > > > down that path, you need to provide us with compelling benchmark
> > > > information which shows that writing C code equivalents of some of
> the
> > > > existing methods will be a *significant* performance win. That's
both
> > at
> > > > the microscopic and the macroscopic (i.e. eclipse runs
significantly
> > > > better) level. Just so you know, our experience on other platforms
> has
> > > > been that, writing C code for performance tuning purposes
frequently
> > > > provides very little real-world benefit versus the equivalent
> > > JIT-compiled
> > > > java code.
> > > >
> > >
> > > See, I am not trying to change things algorithmically. I totally
> agree,
> > > doing the algorithims in java vs. C will not be a huge difference in
> > > speed.
> > > But, if I can remove expensive system calls that don't need to be
made
> > > when
> > > the function is written in C, there will be a big BIG win (thinking
> > > malloc,
> > > memmove, free). So, where does one draw the performance increase
> lines?
> > > ;)
> > > It is very hard to measure the performance under Eclipse
(macroscopic)
> so
> > > that will have to be a "feel" issue. As for the microscopic - Would
a
> > 10%
> > > increase in speed justify the change? More? Less?
> > >
> > > Just so you know, I will be doing my test cases on a P166 - both
macro
> > and
> > > micro. This way speed changes will be more prononouced. And it is
> also
> > > more indicative of the class of processors QNX and OTI's customers
are
> > > using
> > > today with Photon.
> > >
> > > chris
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > platform-swt-dev mailing list
> > > platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-swt-dev
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-swt-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > platform-swt-dev mailing list
> > platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-swt-dev
> >
>
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