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Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0
I agree with Arjan. Sun really missed the boat on good marketing and kept repeating the failed practices of the early 90s (and I say that as a fan of Sun). I have seen the cryptic acronyms be a hurdle to adoption by newcomers many a time first hand. The expanded full names weren’t much better either…

Reza Rahman
Jakarta EE Ambassador, Author, Blogger, Speaker

Please note views expressed here are my own as an individual community member and do not reflect the views of my employer.
 
From: jaxrs-dev <jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 2:19 PM
To: jaxrs developer discussions
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0
 
Then let's agree to disagree there. I'm quite convinced that the cryptic abbreviations played a factor there.

On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 7:45 PM Markus Karg <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Well… no. I really doubt that those names in any way were the critical for missing adoption.

What people expect is functionality and consistency.

-Markus

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von arjan tijms
Gesendet: Montag, 29. November 2021 19:43
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0

 

Names are very important. Perhaps the cryptic short names that EE always used have been a factor in its decline.

 

On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 7:40 PM Markus Karg <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I do not see that is in any way urgent. There are higher priority tasks, like pushing 3.1 through the door.

-Markus

 

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von arjan tijms
Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. November 2021 18:17
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0

 

Hi,

 

Those paths and CIs and job names and what have we can all be changed without doing PRs, which is what I referred to above. I've done this for multiple projects in the past.

 

The move from github/eclipse-ee4j to github/jakarta is a small (but worthwhile) complication, otherwise it would be truly trivial. When is the move planned for? It has been on the agenda for over 2 years now, and would be good to finally execute it.

 

 

 

 

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 4:55 PM Markus Karg <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I see. Chaning the SHORT NAME is absolutely ok for me. Please do not change the Github URL to not confuse people again (and again and again) unless absolutely necessairy. Having said that, if the EF replaces the group path eclipse-ee4j/* anyways to jakarta/*, it certainly is OK for me to go with the path jakarta/rest instead of jakarta/jax-rs in the same step.

-Markus

 

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Jan Supol
Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. November 2021 11:38
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0

 

Hi Markus,

just to be sure, you are -1 for renaming the project. The project name is Jakarta RESTfull Web Services, that's not gonna change. The change is about a short name, which you are +1 for using Jakarta REST.

 

Now for the GitHub repo, we use jaxrs-api. Are you ok with moving it to rest-api (after moving the repo from eclipse-ee4j to some jakartaee org which happens anyway)? That's what I understand was Ed's email about. 

 

Thanks,

Jan

From: jaxrs-dev <jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Markus Karg <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 4:47 PM
To: 'jaxrs developer discussions' <jaxrs-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0

 

I wonder how you want to change the spec title without a PR.

-Markus

 

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von arjan tijms
Gesendet: Samstag, 27. November 2021 15:21
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0

 

Hi,

 

Let’s not do a PR then, and the problem is solved.

On Saturday, November 27, 2021, Markus Karg <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

No we didn't. Please check the rules we gave us https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/jaxrs-api/wiki/Committer-Conventions. There must be zero minus ones.

-Markus

 

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von arjan tijms
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. November 2021 23:00
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0

 

Didn't we just do a yes/no vote, with a simple majority?

 

On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 9:59 PM Markus Karg <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

To sum up, there is one binding -1 vote from a committer, which means that the name will not get changed.

-Markus

 

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von arjan tijms
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. November 2021 20:01
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0

 

Hi,

 

Summing up, I think we have a majority vote for Jakarta REST, so shall we go ahead and make that official?

 

We had a similar issue with Jakarta Faces, which accidentally got named Jakarta Server Faces for a short while. It was fairly easy to correct that. There too, having Jakarta Server Faces as an official name and then Jakarta Faces as the real name simply didn't add anything for anyone.

 

Additionally, with having simple names (Jakarta Faces, Jakarta Transactions, Jakarta Persistence, ...) people don't feel the need to start using cryptic abbreviations. Cryptic abbreviations are very unfriendly to new people, so best avoided.

 

Kind regards,

Arjan

 

 

On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 12:39 AM Ed Bratt <ed.bratt@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Projects generally have a full name and a short name. Currently, Jakarta RESTful Web Services has a short name, restful-ws. This name first appears (to me) about the time we were getting RESTful web services 2.1 ready for ballot (Jul-Sep 2019).

I'm +1 on moving away from JAX-RS since that's fading further and further in the rear-view mirror.

I'm supposing we aren't interested in changing the package name -- sticking with jakarta.ws.rs. In a perfect world, I think it would be nice if the repository and package name lined up but, that seems in-opportune right now (i.e. repository were to become restful-ws and the package name were to change to jakarta.restful_ws or jakarta.restful.ws. (or replace restful with rest, etc.)

If this is the direction the group decides to go in, we should update the name of the GitHub repository as well as the name of the PMI project page (currently https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/ee4j.jaxrs). For me, getting the PMI project page, the repository, and it's associated web-page all aligned with the 'short-name' that the Spec. directory uses would be nice. I don't see this as something super urgent though.

To recap:

I am certain all the jaxrs names are just hold-over legacy. The team can decide if it wants to use 'rest' or 'restful-ws' or anything else that can be consistently applied. Maybe the 4.0 release is the right time for doing this.

-- Ed

On 11/23/2021 9:49 AM, Markus Karg wrote:

I do not see the confusion. IMHO most people are able to understand that "Jakarta REST" simply is a short from of "Jakarta RESTful Web Services".

-Markus

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Santiago Pericasgeertsen
Gesendet: Montag, 22. November 2021 15:29
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0

 

 

 

On Nov 20, 2021, at 3:18 AM, Markus Karg <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

I am -1 for actually renaming the project, but I am +1 for adopting "Jakarta REST" as the official short form we commonly use in our documents.

 

 That is basically the status quo. It simply adds confusion when we mostly refer to it as “Jakarta REST” and the project is named differently.

 

— Santiago

 

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Santiago Pericasgeertsen
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. November 2021 15:31
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [External] : Re: Jakarta REST 3.1.0

 

 

 Yes, definitely, Jakarta REST is a lot better. 

 

— Santiago

 

On Nov 16, 2021, at 4:53 PM, Emily Jiang via jaxrs-dev <jaxrs-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

+1 on both Markus and Arjan's suggestions for the shorter version number and name suggestions!

Thanks

Emily

 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 8:07 PM arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi, 

 

Sounds great! Should we take the opportunity to change the name officially into Jakarta REST, doing away with the longer name that no one ever uses or even can remember exactly?

 

Kind regards,

Arjan

 

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 4:35 PM Santiago Pericasgeertsen <santiago.pericasgeertsen@oraclecom> wrote:

Hi All,

 I plan to create the final 3.1.0 jars for Jakarta 10 and push them to Staging in the next day or two. TCK work will likely continue for a bit longer, but in the meantime we can submit the spec PR and get the approvals we need. 

— Santiago

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-- 

Thanks
Emily

 

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