Re: [jaxrs-dev] Vendor commitments

[Andy McCright <j.andrew.mccright@xxxxxxxxx>]

Yes, you have completely misunderstood my post... 

Firstly, I said that I agree with you that vendor implementation is essential.  Hopefully you don't find this to be sad news.  :)

Second, I mentioned that I don't think it is wise for vendors to make commitments to implement a spec without a spec document or TCK.  I thought this should have been fairly obvious, but I will attempt to explain further.  I could claim that IBM already implements the Jakarta's JAX-RS 2.1.1 spec because it must be compatible with Oracle's JAX-RS 2.1 spec, which we already implement - and are certified on Oracle's web site.  However, other than the transitive property (IBM implements X, X is supposed to be compatible with Y, so therefore IBM implements Y), what proof does any Jakarta user have that IBM really implements this spec?  And if transitive property is enough, then why are we bothering with this release?  Further, per our discussions in GitHub and the mail list, we have agreed that certain things (like the Java SE JAX-RS impl) would be considered optional, but without a spec document, how does a user know that?  And without a TCK, what prevents an implementation from saying that they are 2.2 compatible right now?  Perhaps I am being naive, but I would like to believe that products that claim compatibility with a spec have actually tested and verified that they are in fact compatible.  I can say that IBM has rigorously tested WebSphere Liberty for Java EE compliance in the past, and my expectation is that we will continue to do that for Jakarta EE compatibility.  

Lastly, I said that I am hopeful that IBM will have a production-ready (GA) release ready within six months or sooner of a given spec release.  Given that IBM provided one of the first (if not the first) implementation of Java EE 8 - and that was closer to 9 months after the EE8 spec release, I think that should make users happy.  In the past, production-ready implementations of the EE specs were not generally available for a year after spec release.  Again, I would think this would make you happy, not sad! :)

To summarize:

1) Vendor involvement is important.

2) We (the community) either need to continue to press Oracle to release the spec doc and TCK - and find a suitable workaround.

3) IBM is invested in the success of JAX-RS and Jakarta EE.

Hope this makes you happier!  :)  Thanks again,

Andy

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:13 AM Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This is really disappointing.

 

IIUC then IBM will never implement any of the features we agreed upon if Oracle and the EF never find an agreement? That is very sad to hear, because what users actually expect from vendors is working features, neither certificates of compliance, nor spec documents (in reality the latter are only really essential for vendors to enable marketing, as we simply could cross-check our products with very small effort, if we just would like to). So if we would rename JAX-RS and use a different package name, then IBM will be out of the boat? Good to know for people right now choosing their product! That's what your posting reads like, at least to me. And waiting six months after 2.2 may sound like a bad joke given the EF's four-releases-per-year cadence and the fact that it took me just few weeks (as an external contributor) to add Java SE Bootstrap to Jersey.

 

So I hope I simply have completely misunderstood your posting! I would love to see an answer of yours convincing me that I failed with my interpretation! :-)

 

-Markus

 

 

From: jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andy McCright
Sent: Mittwoch, 29. August 2018 15:34
To: jaxrs developer discussions
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] Vendor commitments

 

Hi Markus,

 

I completely agree that the success of JAX-RS (and Jakarta EE) depends on the rapid (but still high quality, performant, etc.) implementation of multiple vendors.

 

Where I am stuck is that we still don’t have a spec document or a TCK to confirm that an implementation is compatible with the spec.  Since JAX-RS 2.1.1 (Jakarta) is supposed to be compatible with JAX-RS 2.1 (Oracle) most vendors could probably claim that they have a compatible implementation already - IMO that would violate the spirit of the open source community because only vendors who paid Oracle for the rights to the EE CTS could truly claim compliance.  And there would not be any way for users or third parties to verify compatibility.

 

That said, my hope (I cannot commit)  is that Liberty (Open and the commercial WebSphere Liberty) would release a compatible implementation within 6 months of the spec release - ideally sooner.  In the past we have released betas that are mostly compatible earlier - I would expect that we’d do the same thing for JAX-RS 2.2 and beyond.

 

Thanks,

 

Andy

 

 

 

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:39 AM Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear JAX-RS Vendors,

 

now that JAX-RS 2.1.1 soon will be published, we need to look ahead on the upcoming release 2.2 and on the releases of your products.

 

With your kind approval we already added the first feature to JAX-RS 2.2, and more will come. To make the JAX-RS project a success, there must be implementations, as we provide only an API. As many people "out there" are waiting to actually use our new stuff, you can imagine that many are waiting for a time frame for "their" favorite implementing product, not just for the API.

 

Hence I think it is a good time for some commitment. I'd like to kindly ask all vendors to commit to our agreed schedule (at least 2.1.1 and 2.2) and tell the public here, which release of their product will support which version of JAX-RS 2.1.1 / 2.2, and when people can actually hold it in their hands.

 

Thanks a lot!

-Markus

 

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