Hi Jay,
I know this was debated long ago; I was just thinking about that after seeing the current discussion about one build for Dataset and
one for Geometry.
A one way dependency is not in my opinion a tight coupling : unless there are plans for Dataset to depend on the non-numerical data
structures Geometry and Forms, and I don’t think there will be any such dependencies, right Pete?
I agree with the more limited scope of each data structures on their own you pointed out. The only thing is projects usually get bigger
in their scopes and if the Dataset or Geometry get some more contributions then the question I raised might make sense again?
But perhaps, this questioning of mine is unfounded and other type of data-structure could also be added under the January umbrella
eventually.
Cheers
baha
From: january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
Sent: 27 October 2016 12:00
To: january developer discussions <january-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [january-dev] Januart Datasets and Java 8
Baha,
Good question. We debated it extensively before we created this project and decided they were all a good fit for a common data structures project.
There were several reasons for that decision. Both parts have a very limited scope on their own and it is hard to make the argument for their own projects. However, they are both types of data structures - as I've said many times, the data structures world
is far larger than n-dimensional arrays - and together they give the project sufficient scope and user base. Furthermore, as we move to a common architecture for SWG projects, not only does it make sense to have these together, but the form and geometry bundles
will be rewritten to use data sets for most if not all of their data arrays. That will create an extremely tight coupling between those bundles and data sets, (albeit one way).
One of the major goals with creating a common data structures project was identified at last year's unconference: We need to get as many of the SWG projects using the same data structures as possible so that we can share data and enable interoperabilty.
It doesn't make much sense for our interoperability to stop at Java+RCP.
There are probably more reasons, but I just woke up. ;) HTH!
Jay
On Oct 27, 2016 6:42 AM, <baha.el-kassaby@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi all,
Wouldn’t it be better for January Dataset and January Form/Geometry to be in separate projects? I know
that they are in different bundles, but I agree with Matt that this might be confusing for potential users of Dataset or Geometry.
This would solve the different builds issue, and it would bring more clarity to what is January Dataset
and what is the Geometry data structure.
Just moho (my own humble opinion).
Cheers
baha
Jonah,
I think travis allows multiple executions of maven. We could perhaps build and test the two dataset
bundles and then the others? The former being a much simpler run? We could have at the top pom-dataset.xml and pom-all.xml and use the –f switch in maven perhaps.
As a general point we need to be able to build dataset bundles without dependencies and make it clear
that they have few. If the incorrect perception came about that dataset required xtext and xtend, that would be the end of the project wrt many institutions. The community without eclipse-based platforms >> those with them.
Matt
From:
january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jonah Graham
Sent: 27 October 2016 11:09
To: january developer discussions
Subject: Re: [january-dev] Januart Datasets and Java 8
Ok. As said, we need someone to do build and test. I can try to find some time to do it, but its not just setting bree in manifest file.
What I have been wondering is how to split the "foundational" dataset plugins from the substantially more complex geometry stuff. The datasets has almost no deps, but the geometry has xtext, xtend and other deps. If the build is split, it does simplify everything
because for datasets build and bree can match.
Jonah
On 27 Oct 2016 12:00 p.m., <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jonah,
We might be talking about freezing out possible future collaborators and perhaps even your future customers.
In terms of contributions, we first need to get people having value from it, then they will contribute. Eventually those bundles will almost certainly use parallel streams from 8 so they will have to update. The beauty of starting with a lower version is that
version can be branched for those users and master updated so we can please everyone, maximise potential users.
Cheerio,
Matt
From:
january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jonah Graham
Sent: 27 October 2016 10:41
To: january developer discussions
Subject: Re: [january-dev] Januart Datasets and Java 8
Someone has to do build and release engineering for multiple java versions, so if someone does it I have no objection short term. But I want to revisit ASAP to make sure we don't limit contributors by living in the past.
Jonah
On 27 Oct 2016 11:34, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jonah,
I had confirmation that there is a Java7 requirement from ANSTO. It is not a hard requirement but since it is no effort for us and effort in testing for them to go to 8, we may as well keep it at 6 for those bundles.
Sent: 26 October 2016 20:47
To: january developer discussions
Subject: Re: [january-dev] Januart Datasets and Java 8
Scott, can you add comment on Java 8 and Kura? AFAICT from mailing list [1,2] it supports Java 8, but with some ignorable warning?
[1]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/kura-dev/msg00337.html
[2]
https://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/t/1010703/
~~~
Jonah Graham
Kichwa Coders Ltd.
www.kichwacoders.com
On 25 October 2016 at 20:54, Jonah Graham <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> (lets keep these discussions in public domain, I didn't realise last
> one
> wasn't)
>
>
> On 25 Oct 2016 11:55 a.m., "Jonah Graham" <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for asking around. I am at ECE and will ask around here for
>> thoughts.
>>
>> Jonah
>> ~~~
>> Jonah Graham
>> Kichwa Coders Ltd.
>> www.kichwacoders.com
>>
>>
>> On 25 October 2016 at 10:42, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > I have asked some of the possible collaborators on January their
>> > preferences. I agree with Peter that there should be no Java8
>> > requirement unless it is actually required because some of the
>> > diaspora are certainly on 6.
>> >
>> > Cheerio,
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> > [mailto:january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jonah Graham
>> > Sent: 25 October 2016 09:56
>> > To: january developer discussions
>> > Subject: Re: [january-dev] Januart Datasets and Java 8
>> >
>> > I have added a branch in prep to do the downgrade if we decide to
>> > go that way here:
>> >
https://github.com/jonahkichwacoders/january/tree/downgrade_to_java
>> > _6
>> > ~~~
>> > Jonah Graham
>> > Kichwa Coders Ltd.
>> > www.kichwacoders.com
>> >
>> >
>> > On 25 October 2016 at 09:13, Jonah Graham <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > wrote:
>> >> (Changed subject, was Re: [january-dev] January 1.0 released!)
>> >>
>> >> Hi Peter,
>> >>
>> >> I think this warrants further discussion. There are reasons I
>> >> would encourage Java 1.8:
>> >> - Not supporting Java 8 increases barriers to contributors (two
>> >> ways,
>> >> 1 not being able to use "all" Java features, 2 tooling and setup
>> >> makes it more complicated*)
>> >> - Java 6 & 7 of EOL
>> >> - The IDataset, originally part of the API plug-in was 1.7 or
>> >> greater since DAWNSci initial import, the 1.8 was put in place in April.
>> >> Although some other bundles had lower reqs, having any dep be 1.8,
>> >> this essentially meant that everything was 1.8 in practice.
>> >>
>> >> So, when I set the 1.8 across the range, it was because of these
>> >> reasons, the lack of earlier discussion was due to the implicit
>> >> assumption on my part due to the last reason, so thank you for
>> >> raising it now to make sure it is discussed fully. (You did point
>> >> this out earlier[1], but I misunderstood the meaning of the
>> >> comment at the time).
>> >>
>> >> There is one strong reason against 1.8 (or at least delaying the
>> >> move to 1.8):
>> >> - A specific/known potential consumer of January datasets is stuck
>> >> with Java < 1.8
>> >>
>> >> Peter, please let me know your thoughts and what I may have overlooked.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Jonah
>> >>
>> >> [1]
>> >>
https://github.com/eclipse/january/pull/12#issuecomment-247993737
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ~~~
>> >> Jonah Graham
>> >> Kichwa Coders Ltd.
>> >> www.kichwacoders.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 24 October 2016 at 15:43, Jay Jay Billings
>> >> <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>> Peter,
>> >>>
>> >>> Sure. That works for me.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jay
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:40 AM, <Peter.Chang@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi Jay,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ok, but can the january, j.asserts, j.examples and j.test be
>> >>>> 1.6+ and the rest be 1.8+?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Peter
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> From: january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> [mailto:january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jay Jay
>> >>>> Billings
>> >>>> Sent: 24 October 2016 15:37
>> >>>> To: january developer discussions <january-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [january-dev] January 1.0 released!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The form and geometry parts require Java 1.8.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jay
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:35 AM, <Peter.Chang@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi Jonah,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks for the release!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I had a chance to compare our repo with the new Eclipse repo and
>> >>>> it seems that Java 1.8 is required now. I thought we were
>> >>>> targeting 1.6. It's not important to Diamond but has this changed?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Peter
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> [mailto:january-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jonah
>> >>>> Graham
>> >>>> Sent: 21 October 2016 16:09
>> >>>> To: january developer discussions <january-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>> >>>> Science Industry Working Group <science-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> Subject: [january-dev] January 1.0 released!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Everyone,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> January 1.0 is now available at
https://www.eclipse.org/january.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The P2 Site is located here:
>> >>>>
http://download.eclipse.org/january/releases/1.0.0/repository/
>> >>>> And you can check out January, browse examples, etc here:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
https://github.com/eclipse/january/tree/JANUARY_1_0_0#the-eclips
>> >>>> e-ja
>> >>>> nuary-project
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks!
>> >>>> Jonah
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ~~~
>> >>>> Jonah Graham
>> >>>> Kichwa Coders Ltd.
>> >>>> www.kichwacoders.com
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> january-dev mailing list
>> >>>> january-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
>> >>>> unsubscribe from this list, visit
>> >>>>
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/january-dev
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential,
>> >>>> copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the
>> >>>> intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee
>> >>>> or an authorised recipient of the addressee please notify us of
>> >>>> receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain,
>> >>>> distribute or disclose the information in or attached to the e-mail.
>> >>>> Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the
>> >>>> individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd.
>> >>>> Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or
>> >>>> any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept
>> >>>> liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of
>> >>>> software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message.
>> >>>> Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered
>> >>>> in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond
>> >>>> House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot,
>> >>>> Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> january-dev mailing list
>> >>>> january-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
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>> >>>> unsubscribe from this list, visit
>> >>>>
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>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jay Jay Billings
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential,
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>> >>>> Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or
>> >>>> any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept
>> >>>> liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of
>> >>>> software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message.
>> >>>> Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered
>> >>>> in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond
>> >>>> House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot,
>> >>>> Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> january-dev mailing list
>> >>>> january-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
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>> >>>> unsubscribe from this list, visit
>> >>>>
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>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Jay Jay Billings
>> >>> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>> >>> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> january-dev mailing list
>> >>> january-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
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