Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Platform popularity

[arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

I picked this nugget of wisdom up from the Internet, and I have to say it's an interesting take on things (minus the EJB recommendation):

"The merge of MicroProfile and EE would look like a platform that incorporates the best features from both technologies. MicroProfile would provide a lightweight, open-source API for developing cloud-native applications, while EE would provide the features of an enterprise platform, such as scalability, reliability, and security. This platform would be designed to be modular and extensible, allowing developers to choose the components they need for their applications. Additionally, the platform would also include features from both MicroProfile and EE, such as enterprise JavaBeans (EJB), Java Servlet API, Java Message Service (JMS), and Java Database Connectivity (JDBC). This new platform would provide a comprehensive development environment for enterprise applications, while still being lightweight and agile enough to handle the demands of cloud-native applications."

Kind regards,

Arjan Tijms

On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 7:31 PM reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I do agree the full and core profiles should be the main focus, as well as independent specification releases. I think also releasing a web profile is not that cumbersome. Some decent choices like Payara Micro seem to use it.

I think it’s also relatively obvious a large schism between Jakarta EE and MicroProfile helps no one. Finding ways towards simpler cohesion is a smarter bet eventually.

It is indeed key to get back to a regular release cadence for Jakarta EE. The option that has the most amount of support with key stakeholders at the moment is essentially mapping to the Java SE LTS releases.

I also agree the starter, tutorial, examples and guides are key going forward. That’s where I am investing more of my time personally going forward. I think the specifications are actually going mostly in the right direction these days, though the pace certainly could be improved.

 

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From: jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Vano Beridze <vanuatoo@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2022 12:57 AM
To: jakartaee-platform developer discussions <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Platform popularity

 

We lost attractiveness - Oracle's delayed decision regarding Java EE 8, then donation to Eclipse, then holding on to Java EE trademark and related activities took really long time. Java EE was popular, because big names were behind it and actively pushing the agenda.

The developers need to stick to something that's not only works but also evolving fastly, brings them joy and job safety.

Jakarta EE 10 is a great achievement but if you compare it to Java EE 8, there are hardly any revolutionary changes. Java EE 8 was released 5 years ago.

What we mostly do is to make sure platform changes don't affect existing user base, instead of thinking mostly how to become the popular again.

What I propose to do is to have just two profiles:

1. Full profile - which is there to support customers who plan to use legacy applications.

2. Core Profile - which is where the exciting staff happens.

We need to do identify specs which does not have future and completely stop investing in them.

We need to combine forces with MicroProfile community, identify the set of specs which are critical to our success and bring them to life under one name as soon as possible.

We need to start thinking how to create good onboarding environment for developers and stop relying on vendors to do that. Jakarta EE starter is the good place to expand, add more documentation, real use cases.

We need to stop thinking that because Spring uses small number of specs, Jakarta EE is standard. Spring will never be Jakarta EE compatible and they could easily remove Jakarta EE reliance in one year if they wanted to.

Other popular frameworks also are not Jakarta EE compatible and if we want them to be, there should be drastic changes in how we do things. With the current process and dynamics I'm afraid in 5 years there will be proprietary frameworks and Jakarta EE as the failed attempt to have standard in Enterprise Java.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, 11:04 PM arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:22 PM Vano Beridze <vanuatoo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I hardly imagine a situation where Jakarta EE will be chosen over Spring Boot or Quarkus if somebody is going to create a microservice.

It might help us a lot if you were able to give some specifics about the reasons why you can't imagine that.

Kind regards,

Arjan Tijms

 

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