Skip to main content

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Platform popularity

Hi,

I agree the poll data are not usable until you have the details you mention and the biase data have (sources).
Until EE have a wider comm and more integration projects it will be hard to compete with anyone.

However I disagree the lost of attractiveness is due to the lack of innovation but think most of it is due to the chain of breaking changes.

EE is a home for abstraction - otherwise drop the multivendor part and stick to the monoimpl phylosophy (almost as in mp) - which means it can only be late behind vendor but it is ok cause most projects dont care but care about paying migration and it is where EE was great until it becomes jakarta.
Today it is late, fat - and not profiles just add mess to the game cause consumers/libs dont know what they can rely on, and costly/uncertain in terms of future so why would it be attractive again?...I dont even speak about the tunnel effect ignoring all communities feedback (github is kind of a shame for some core projects).

Giving back more stability and a more solid base would probably attract more without investment for the community just by matching business.
Leading to innovation will fall back in pitfall the projects/platform are not designed to do so should hopefully stay apart - MP can be since it is designed to break consummer in its comm/contract.

Le sam. 3 déc. 2022 à 06:57, Vano Beridze <vanuatoo@xxxxxxxxx> a écrit :
We lost attractiveness - Oracle's delayed decision regarding Java EE 8, then donation to Eclipse, then holding on to Java EE trademark and related activities took really long time. Java EE was popular, because big names were behind it and actively pushing the agenda.

The developers need to stick to something that's not only works but also evolving fastly, brings them joy and job safety.

Jakarta EE 10 is a great achievement but if you compare it to Java EE 8, there are hardly any revolutionary changes. Java EE 8 was released 5 years ago.

What we mostly do is to make sure platform changes don't affect existing user base, instead of thinking mostly how to become the popular again.

What I propose to do is to have just two profiles:
1. Full profile - which is there to support customers who plan to use legacy applications.
2. Core Profile - which is where the exciting staff happens.

We need to do identify specs which does not have future and completely stop investing in them.

We need to combine forces with MicroProfile community, identify the set of specs which are critical to our success and bring them to life under one name as soon as possible.

We need to start thinking how to create good onboarding environment for developers and stop relying on vendors to do that. Jakarta EE starter is the good place to expand, add more documentation, real use cases.

We need to stop thinking that because Spring uses small number of specs, Jakarta EE is standard. Spring will never be Jakarta EE compatible and they could easily remove Jakarta EE reliance in one year if they wanted to.

Other popular frameworks also are not Jakarta EE compatible and if we want them to be, there should be drastic changes in how we do things. With the current process and dynamics I'm afraid in 5 years there will be proprietary frameworks and Jakarta EE as the failed attempt to have standard in Enterprise Java.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, 11:04 PM arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:22 PM Vano Beridze <vanuatoo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I hardly imagine a situation where Jakarta EE will be chosen over Spring Boot or Quarkus if somebody is going to create a microservice.

It might help us a lot if you were able to give some specifics about the reasons why you can't imagine that.

Kind regards,
Arjan Tijms

 
_______________________________________________
jakartaee-platform-dev mailing list
jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakartaee-platform-dev
_______________________________________________
jakartaee-platform-dev mailing list
jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakartaee-platform-dev

Back to the top