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Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] Any requirement on the use of the JVM for certification?

(Since the issue is now with the Platform Project, I'm going to move the discussion to the Platform mailing list and move the Spec Committee to bcc.  Spec Committee members are welcome to continue the conversation on the Platform mailing list.  Thanks.)

Bill,
Both Scott and I have confirmed that this "Java Compatible(TM)" Java requirement is not part of the TCK Processdocument.  But, I knew this was discussed during the Jakarta EE 8 efforts.  Once Mike remembered where it was still documented, I think it's best to make the Platform Spec and the TCK Process consistent and remove this requirement from the Platform Spec.

You asked "What is the purpose of removing this requirement?"...  If the Java TCK was available free-of-charge to all varieties of the OpenJDK offerings (not just Hotspot), then maybe we could leave this requirement in place.  But, as it stands, the TCK is not available to other open-source JVM alternatives, most notably OpenJ9.  It is my understanding that due to this inconsistency, that Adopthas decided not to run the TCK against any of the OpenJDK combinations.  Instead, they have decided to go with their own test suite composed of tests from several organizations and efforts -- OpenJDK, OpenJ9, MicroProfile, and others.  But, I don't want to turn this technical discussion into a political discussion.

I will point out that the Platform Spec still reads that the Java Runtime needs to be compliant with the Java Spec (this is how it reads with my proposed PR:  https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/jakartaee-platform/pull/178):

This specification requires that containers
provide a Java™ runtime environment, as defined by the Java
Platform, Standard Edition, v8 specification (Java SE).

So, I'm not trying to open up the Wild West and allow some half-baked solutions.  And, to be honest, you would need a pretty robust "Java Runtime" to support the Jakarta EE runtime and running the Jakarta EE TCK.

That's my justification for this proposed change.  We can continue the discussion here on the mailing list or via the PR.  Thanks!  

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect @ IBM
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:        Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:        Jakarta specification committee <jakarta.ee-spec.committee@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        04/23/2020 19:36
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] Re: [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] Any requirement on the use of the JVM for certification?




What is the purpose of removing this requirement?

We have strong compatibility requirements for the Jakarta EE APIs, why should we not have equally strong compatibility requirements for the underlying Java SE platform?

If you want to build something that's not compatible, you can do the same thing you would do with any of the Jakarta EE APIs, simply don't claim that it is compatible.

Kevin Sutter wrote on 4/23/20 3:41 PM:
Fantastic memory, Mike! Thanks!

It was in section 2.4.1 Container Requirements of the Platform Spec.  I will propose an update to this section straight away.

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect @ IBM
e-mail:  
sutter@xxxxxxxxxx    Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:        
Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        
jakarta.ee-spec.committee@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date:        
04/23/2020 16:44
Subject:        
[EXTERNAL] Re: [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] Any requirement on the use of the JVM for certification?
Sent by:        
jakarta.ee-spec.committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx




On 2020-04-23 11:55 a.m., Kevin Sutter wrote:

I thought for Jakarta EE 8 that we had a requirement to use either the Oracle JDK or OpenJDK+Hotspot for our Certification requests.  This was due to our continued usage of the javax.* artifacts.  But, I can't find that documented in either our TCK Process or the Operations Guide.

IIRC, the requirement is in the Platform Spec document itself where it stipulates that EE 8 must run on top of a Java SE compatible runtime. Sorry, I can't remember exactly which section.
--

Mike Milinkovich

Executive Director | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.

mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

@mmilinkov

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