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Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Java SE 8 or 11 for Jakarta EE 9?

+1 java 11 support plus java 8 support

I think that we can support both on Jakarta EE 9 due if the TCK'S are passing now with java 8 will be not to difficult execute the same tests against java 11 if we are using standard java API's the change could be not painful and take advantage that currently most of the app servers are supporting java11 and we can also test this change across different implementations, but due the big change related to the package renaming, I think the cadence time for this first release will be affected.

IMHO

Thank you
    

On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 9:05 AM Ivar Grimstad <ivar.grimstad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

We should absolutely make running on Java 11 a requirement! 
- Most app servers already support this, so it shouldn't be a big issue. 
- By not doing that, we don't just raise the barrier, we essentially block new adopters out. 
- Who, with a sane state of mind, would choose 8 as a baseline if you were starting a new project or porting an existing one from another technology stack?

To keep the vendors' existing customers happy, we could also make it a requirement to run on Java 8. I would say the question is whether this should be optional or not. 
- making it optional will make it easier for new vendors to enter the market,
- a vendor may still choose to support both 8 and 11. Make it a competitive advantage if you like
- customers still on 8 will not be very likely to port to another vendor, so that is not an issue if there are implementations out there that don't support 8

We need to show the market, community, the world that Jakarta EE is a modern platform. And staying put on Java 8 is not that! Even if the specs don't need it, the signal effect is important! We need to move forward. And show that we do. Another release of "Java EE 8" is not that.

Ivar

On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 8:14 AM Emily Jiang <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
+1 on keeping the Java minimum version as Java 8 with the support of future versions such as Java11 with the following reasons:
1. A lot of end users are still on Java8. Changing the base Java version will raise the adoption biarrer of JakartaEE 9, as per Tobias’s notes.
2. It will be nice to have JakartaEE 9 released earlier and a few runtimes comply with it. If we raise the Java minimum version to Java 11, all API and TCKs will need to be recompiled with Java11. Together with package name changes, I think there are a lot of changes to manage especially when something is not working.

3. With the support of further Java versions, end users can use Java11 in this apps. This will satisfy Edwin ‘s requirements. As Rudy said, a few runtimes already support Java 11. I know Open Liberty does.

4. No specs require Java11 as yet. We should not raise the bar for no apparent reason.

With this, I think Jakarta EE 9 should keep the Java minimum version to Java8 with the support of future Java versions e.g. Java11.

Thanks 
Emily 


On Nov 4, 2019 at 6:42 am, <Rudy De Busscher> wrote:

Even today, most vendors support running Java EE 8 on JDK 11. So it is not the case that when we do not raise the minimum to JDK 11 for Jakarta EE 9, that it will not be possible to use JDK 11.

But the other way around is true when it runs only on JDK 11, we exclude everyone who still requires JDK 8.

So setting the minimum to JDK 11 is more harmful than still support JDK 8 and that vendors make sure it is running on JDK 11.

regards
Rudy

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 06:29, Edwin Derks <ederks85@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
True but think of this. Setting 11 as the base for JakartaEE 9 compatibility shouldn’t require any technical changes on the platform for this release.

However it could be a big change voor vendors and more importantly: end users. Because when 11 is the base level, this means that Application servers and end users can make use of Java 11 features.

This could provide a fresh new feeling of building apps with JakartaEE, which is much needed to inspire new developers on the platform.

Just my thoughts as an end user.

Regards,

Edwin

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 03:34, Jorge Alejandro Cajas <jac.mota@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
There is already a lot of work to do for the JakartaEE 9 release, so I think that for this time the smartest choice is to keep Java 8 as the minimum as that doesn't affect the functionality of the JakartaEE 9 release 

On Sun, Nov 3, 2019, 20:30 Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Since we're trying to nail down the Jakarta EE 9 content before early December, I'm going to start a few separate threads to discuss the major topics.

Should Jakarta EE 9 keep Java SE 8 as the minimum, or should we move to Java SE 11?  

Note, even if we decide to move to Java SE 11 as the minimum, this does not mean that we will require JPMS.  We're only talking about the runtime support.  Also, even if we decide to stick with Java SE 8 as the minimum, compatible implementations could support any version of Java SE 8 and beyond.

Java SE 8 Pros
  • Consistent with Java EE 8 and Jakarta EE 8.  Limits migration concerns.
  • No need to provide the "missing" Java EE technologies that were removed from Java SE 11.
  • Still has a long support cycle (2025?).

Java SE 11 Pros
  • Latest and greatest LTS release for Java.
As you can see, I'm having a tough time justifying the move to Java SE 11 -- especially with all of the required work for Jakarta EE 9, namely the jakarta namespace change.

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
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--

Ivar Grimstad

Jakarta EE Developer Advocate | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.

Eclipse Foundation: The Platform for Open Innovation and Collaboration

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