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Arjan/Ed/All,
Allow me to add a few more thoughts and memories to this topic.
Markus Eisele, currently at Red Hat was hoping to get a logging JSR into the JCP many years ago, but it did not even reach proposal phase.
From what I recall the committers to SLF4J/Logback and Log4J could not agree which one should be the RI, so as asked earlier in this thread, would SLF4J participate in this effort now and eventually be happy to have it replace major parts of its API?
I remember, Jakarta Data had a hard time getting started and a broad enough vendor representation, but eventually committers from IBM (also co-lead), Hibernate (Red Hat), Micronaut and Oracle joined, with occasional shout-ins from the sideline by Spring Data
committers as well. It remains to be seen, if Spring also adopts it, but IBM and Hibernate already do.
Is a similar adoption likely for the logging spec?
As for the JCP, I doubt with the JDK throwing more and more things out, e.g. SecurityManager, its interest and ability would go anywhere beyond System.Logger in JEP 264:
https://openjdk.org/jeps/264 Maybe adding a method or feature here and there, but I doubt, a logging JSR, comparable to say 310 is ever going to happen there.
As for the 5 year old Microprofile thread, I don't see much sense in a log abstraction like this proposal in Microprofile either, should it fail a creation review.
Kind Regards,
Werner
From: jakarta.ee-spec <jakarta.ee-spec-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Arjan Tijms via jakarta.ee-spec <jakarta.ee-spec@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2024 10:51 AM
To: Jakarta specification discussions <jakarta.ee-spec@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Arjan Tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-spec] [EXTERNAL] Re: Proposal: Jakarta Logging
Hi,
I remember logging being discussed extensively during the Java EE 6 and Java EE 7 days as a candidate for standardisation.
From then, an important distinction we made was between:
1. Developing (or not) an actual API for logging along with an implementation thereof, perhaps tailored towards the typical multi-user server logs
2. Standardizing logging configuration for the platform
Ad 2) Currently enabling logging is highly implementation specific. For instance, configuring log levels for EclipseLink or Hibernate is different from doing that for Mojarra. A user has to dive into the internals of what a platform implementation is using
most of the time.
Kind regards,
Arjan Tijms
Greetings programs,
As you may know, I am actively campaigning for a seat on the specification committee representing Microsoft. However, regardless of the outcome of the election, I can speak representing Microsoft’s opinion.
Microsoft is glad to see vitality and innovation in Jakarta EE standards. We recognize these are key to continuing to deliver our shared mission with Jakarta EE. Regarding logging, we need to proceed with
extreme care. Among all cross-cutting concerns, logging is the most ancient, foundational, and hacked upon. We all can count off the numerous attempts over the years to improve logging above java.util.logging. We need to carefully weigh the costs of making
yet another attempt that ends up further fragmenting the logging landscape, rather than improving it.
At this point, Microsoft recommends directing these efforts toward JCP.
Ed
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Hi all,
The proposal will be available for everyone to see as soon as it enters the community review. Until then, check the description that Christian provided in the email.
If you, as a member of the Jakarta EE Working Group want to appoint a committer before the review starts, please let Christian know so he can add you.
Just tried and can't access it as well, and I am part of Jakarta EE Specification Committee.
I am checking with the rest of the group this Wednesday if they can access the proposal.
Best Regards,
Marcelo Ancelmo
I don't have access to that proposal... is it something you have to configure?
(I can login and view other proposals).
Was just interested in reading your ideas.
Thank you
-----Original Message-----
From: jakarta.ee-spec <jakarta.ee-spec-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Christian Grobmeier via jakarta.ee-spec
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2024 5:26 AM
To: jakarta.ee-spec@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Christian Grobmeier <cg@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [jakarta.ee-spec] Proposal: Jakarta Logging
Dear Jakarta EE Specification Committee,
I propose "Jakarta Logging" for the Jakarta EE ecosystem.
You can find the proposal here:
https://projects.eclipse.org/proposals/jakarta-logging
This project seeks to streamline logging practices across the Java community by providing a standardized API. This approach aims to:
- Enhancing security by minimizing dependencies and reducing risks as seen with the Log4shell vulnerability
- Eliminate incompatibilities between logging frameworks
- Remove vendor lock-in by encouraging adoption of the Jakarta Logging API
- Simplify configuration, reducing the need for bridges
- Motivate frameworks to leverage the Jakarta API rather than building their logging solution
The proposal is backed by three members of the Log4j team who have extensive experience working on the framework full-time. We would love to bring our experiences to Jakarta EE and hope others will join us in this effort.
If you are interested in becoming an initial committer or want to contribute in another way, please reach out to me by e-mail and I will happily add you to the proposal.
In addition, if you have any questions, I will gladly address them by e-mail or during a Q&A call.
I am looking forward to your feedback!
Kind regards,
Christian
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--
Ivar Grimstad
Jakarta EE Developer Advocate |
Eclipse Foundation
Eclipse Foundation - Community.
Code. Collaboration.
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