Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [jakartaee-platform-dev] Slack room for infor

["Kevin Sutter" <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Thodoris and Edwin,
Yes, these are
the reasons behind the thought of creating a Slack channel for anyone interested
in a quick, informal chat.  The "official" communications
would still be done via the mailing lists.  But, if there is a quick
q&a that could be posted on Slack, then it helps with the email overload
that many of us are under.

The Jakarta EE
workspace already has the general #jakartaee channel, and Scott Marlow
just created the #jakartaee-tck channel.  If I go forward with this,
I think I would create #jakartaee-platform.  I didn't want to re-use
the general #jakartaee channel since that is one that newbies automatically
get subscribed to.  It's used just to get people's feet whet with
Jakarta EE.  I'm thinking that the #jakartaee-platform channel would
be used mainly by those individuals actively developing Jakarta EE 9 (or
any of the follow-on releases).  Other suggestions?

FYI, here is a
link to the Jakarta EE workspace on Slack.  Anyone interested in Jakarta
EE can join this free workspace.
https://join.slack.com/t/eclipsefoundationhq/shared_invite/zt-crh7mheq-3on2tophEuvQTUGidEAWlg


---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter 
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect @ IBM
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:
       Thodoris
Bais <thodoris.bais@xxxxxxxxx>
To:
       Jakarta
EE community discussions <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
       05/10/2020
13:03
Subject:
       [EXTERNAL]
Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [jakartaee-platform-dev] Slack room for informal
discussions ???
Sent
by:        jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

Keeping both is the way forward IMHO,
as both of them serve a different (and equally important) purpose.

On the one hand, our mailing list is
there for strategy discussions (e.g. topics which address everyone interested
in JakartaEE, even those ones who are not willing to get involved in contributing
code).

On the other hand, keeping Slack
wouldn't hurt, as when it comes to drilling down to some code-specific
topic or something that would/could take ages being resolved via GitHub
otherwise, it can always come to the rescue.

Hence, I personally see Slack as optional
and more relevant to the people who might will to further discuss technical
topics in-depth at a given moment, but I do not see a reason for ditching
it.

Thodoris



Op za 9 mei 2020 om 13:58 schreef Edwin
Derks <ederks85@xxxxxxxxx>:
Hi all,

I'm in favor of keeping the mailing list
dedicated for transparent and valuable discussion that can reach everybody
involved in this community. At least, that's why I subscribed and it works
perfectly well for me. So I agree with Amelia: the collaborative work for
Jakarta should be discussed here because yes, tracing is kind of important
here.

However, I like using Slack (or even
Twitter for that matter) as a tool for being able to reach people within
the community for informal chat like "I will join later" or "Can
we schedule something" or "I just have a general question".
I'm not sure people are interested in that kind of conversation on the
mailing list, at least I wouldn't.

So both communication tools have their
own purpose as I see it. Doing everything via the mailing list or everything
via Slack feels like using either tool beyond their intended purpose.

Kind regards,

Edwin

On Sat, 9 May 2020 at 13:31, Werner Keil
<werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
We've been using Slack in other places,
most recently for AlltheTalks conference where a couple of Java and Jakarta
EE experts or Java Champions also gave a talk in a 24 h virtual conference.

The Q&A was done via Slack.

Werner

Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
schrieb am Sa., 9. Mai 2020, 00:15:
Thanks for your
input, Amelia.

But, as we continue to drive towards the Jakarta EE 9 release, there may
be a need for more immediate, informal communications.  I know I have
already been using the Slack channel that Scott setup for the TCK (as well
as Cesar from TT).  So, I would still like to hear from other's opinions
that are intimately involved in the delivery of Jakarta EE 9.  Thanks!

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter 
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect @ IBM
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx    Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:        Amelia
Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        jakartaee-platform
developer discussions <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Jakarta EE Community <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        05/08/2020
13:46
Subject:        [EXTERNAL]
Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Slack room for informal discussions ???
Sent by:        jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

Scott and Kevin, 

There is another thread via the community forum about the desire to use
slack for "quick -- not important-- exchanges" on the Jakarta
EE Project. Sadly the email archive interface to find that thread doesn't
make it possible for me to find that conversation. :( 

Summary of that thread, Slack for Jakarta's collaborative work shouldn't
exit. 

Many Jakartees stated that they prefer to avoid altogether the usage of
another "debt-communication tool" to do any work to move this
project forward. 

Using the ASF collaboration tool, IF a discussion didn't arrive
at its respective mailing list, it didn't happen at all. 
Email lists enable focus on projects, topics, etc. 
Slack, even if paid is just not efficient for tracing how things are pushed
forward. 

For everyone, 
Jakarta EE ecosystem  wants to enable anyone wishing to help (contributor/user)
to do so easily without having to decide on owning the project's multiple
tools. 
Too many tools convert negatively to higher debt to keep up with and substain. 
This is the community who gets to figure out what it protects. I thought
that thread was enough to drop that Jakarta Slack channel yet I see us
still talking about it and protecting it even after healthy feedback that
it ought to be difficult to ignore. 

At the end of the day,  lowering the barrier to entry to help in any
 OSS source project is one of the most important goals there is. 
 It states clearly to anyone watching, that the ecosystem is grounded
& fully aware of the limited time its contributor (s). It says, it respects
that time and protects it. 
It pays most attention to proactively cutting communication debts. 

For me, Slack in OSS can become EXTRA bothersome if many in the group choose
to connect via "private exchanges" instead of public channels
for example. 
Scaling has to count for much of enabling others to stand besides us and
not behind us, right? 
Collaboration in Slack will minimize the forum email conversations in the
short and long term, it will cut diverse voices & ideas from those
missing "joining that debt"... 

With that said, like many others-- I won't be joining that slack group.
There is no value and that is my choice. That also means that  I am
choosing to be side-track and surprise potentially in a bad form when
stuff just shows up and I am informed about it. Is that what we want to
increase in this ecosystem?

I will continue to use the respective jakarta email forums to participate. 

PS: Added Jkta community forum. 

happy Friday Jakartees, 

Amelia Eiras 
twitter.com/ameliaeiras
Tribe: http://tomitribe.com 
    https://tribestream.io 
 
OSS:  http://microprofile.io 
   https://jakarta.ee


On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:03 AM Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi,
I was talking with Scott Marlow yesterday about the possibility of using
Slack channels for more immediate discussions on various topics. 
Scott has volunteered to be the "guinea pig" and he created one
for theJakarta
EE TCK discussions(see
below).  If this usage of Slack pans out, then I might also create
one for the Platform discussions, especially as we continue to drive towards
a Jakarta EE 9 release.  Let me know if the use of a "Jakarta
EE Platform Slack" channel would be of use and is desired.  Thanks!

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter 
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect @ IBM
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx 
  Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
----- Forwarded by Kevin Sutter/Rochester/IBM on 05/08/2020 09:56 -----

From:        Scott
Marlow <smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:        jakartaee-tck-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date:        05/08/2020
09:29
Subject:        [EXTERNAL]
Re: [jakartaee-tck-dev] Slack room for informal discussion of    
   Platform TCK tasks/planning...
Sent by:        jakartaee-tck-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:41 PM Scott Marlow <smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi,

I created a #jakartaee-tck [1] room for discussing the EE 9 Platform TCK
tasks/planning, that is open for all in the community that would like to
join.

Sharing from slack discussion yesterday/today:
"
Here are some possible ideas for how we can report on our TCK status:

1. Via a shared google document or spreadsheet

2. Via a shared github page.

3. Via an TCK issue, like https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/jakartaee-tck/issues/207

4. Something else?

My thoughts are that we should primarily use issue tracking for tasks, as we have been.  And update our Kanban board to show work in sorted order, maybe the ordering could be by milestone number

Regarding how to share status, I am thinking we can send a weekly status email to the tck ml.  That would be useful for all, I think.
"

Scott

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-- 
Thodoris Bais, 

Utrecht
Java User Group

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