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Re: [iot-pmc] top-level GitHub project 
Hi Jens,
(3a) Yes, it's possible if they have the libraries installed on their system and CMake can find them. But it's tricky to create them yourself especially on Windows (Debug, Release, x86, x86_64, patches). Something we rather not have potential contributors (or colleagues) go through.
(3b) The recipes are rather small and certainly wouldn't qualify as an open source project in their own right. However, they are purposely created for cyclonedds (CUnit got adopted by Bincrafters) and I think the project should be able to exercise some level of control which versions, binaries etc are used as long as they're not "official" packages (as in adopted by Bincrafters or the Conan project itself).
(3c) The recipes themselves are automatically build and tested on both Travis and AppVeyor, if successful, the artifacts are automatically pushed to Bintray. There are a lot of custom scripts provided by Bincrafters, an initiative to create recipes for many open source libraries, that require a special repository layout etc. Something I don't want to recreate myself. 


To give an idea of how/when Conan comes into play.

---- with conan ----
$ pip install conan
$ mkdir cyclonedds/build
$ cd cyclonedds/build
$ conan install ..
$ cmake -DBUILD_TESTING=on ../src
$ cmake --build .
---- /with conan ----

---- without conan ----
Download, build and install CUnit (mostly available in distro repositories, but not for Windows or macOS, Windows even needs some patches) Download, build and install Criterion (ppa available for Ubuntu, but a nightmare for every other platform, official source tarball doesn't include everything to build) The same as above for all future dependencies, let's hope the user built everything with the right flags etc. 
Export paths for all dependencies

$ mkdir cyclonedds/build
$ cd cyclonedds/build
$ cmake -DBUILD_TESTING=on ../src
$ cmake --build .
---- /without conan ----
I know the "without conan" doesn't seem like a lot of work, it's just two extra lines :), but trust me when I say it saves A LOT of time and effort. 

Cheers,
Jeroen


On 2018-11-08 16:37, Jens Reimann wrote:


Hi Jeroen,

regarding (3), I would like to understand:
(a) if it is possible for people to build cyclonedds without having access to precompiled dependencies? 
(b) what would be the benefit of having an additional organization?
(c) As this organization would be part of your project, why can't you store those dependencies in your project repository instead? 

Thanks

Jens
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 1:57 PM Jeroen Koekkoek <jeroen@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 


Hi Kai,

I too am sorry for taking this long to respond. It's not lack of
interest, but rather to get an idea first on how to proceed.

(1) While it's not impossible for cyclonedds to use JIPP, using Travis
and AppVeyor is easier for developers that want to send us pull requests 
because they build their sources on the exact same platform using the
exact same build recipes and dependencies.
(2) We're still looking into this, but we're probably going to fork and 
start the process for the CQ soon.

(3) Build recipes for dependencies. We use Conan.io to manage build
dependencies for the platforms on which we build. This makes it
extremely easy for developers and users to simply get pre-compiled
dependencies by pulling them from Bintray (https://bintray.com/) if
they're not available on their system. Apart from that we have a
guarantee that the product is build on the "exact same" platform every
time because even the build dependencies are version controlled. I've
written a bunch of these recipes, so the source for the recipe is
"owned" by the project already, but it must not (and cannot) be stored
in the cyclonedds repository. Currently we provide them through a GitHub 
organization tied to the company I work for (ADLINK), but it would be
better if they're hosted with the project. We're going to be adding more 
and more of these recipes in the future as the number of dependencies
grows. Please see https://github.com/atolab/conan-criterion to get an
idea of what such a recipe looks like. I think maintaining them under
our own organization would be best.
I'll get a bugzilla ticket created, let's continue the discussion there 
if there's still doubts wrt the validity of the request.

Cheers,
Jeroen

On 2018-10-31 11:37, Kai Kreuzer wrote:


Hi Jeroen,

Sorry for my late reply on this.
As an outcome of the PMC discussion, I have added a section about
Github orgs here: https://wiki.eclipse.org/IoT/PMC#Project
As you can see, there are no general requirements that would allow it, 
but decisions have to be taken on a case by case evaluation.

So please let us again dive into your two arguments, why you are
requesting such an org:
(1) In general, the PMC is of the opinion that Eclipse projects should 
use the provided build infrastructure (i.e. JIPP). Note that it is
possible to also use Windows nodes for JIPP. External services such as Travis should only be a last resort, if it isn't possible to use JIPP. 
It would therefore be nice if you could check whether you can do the
builds on JIPP and if this isn't possible to give the concrete reasons 
for that.

(2) As Wayne already stated: Any source code that is added in Eclipse
project repositories IS source code of the Eclipse project. So you
cannot maintain a fork (as part of your project) and continue to claim that it is merely a dependency of your project. The code would require to go through a full CQ as a code contribution to Eclipse. In any case, this should not require a dedicated Github org, but could be done as a 
sub-project in its own repo under the eclipse org.

Best regards,
Kai
On 30. Oct 2018, at 15:18, Jeroen Koekkoek <jeroen@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 

Hi All,

Just curious what the outcome of the discussion regarding TLOrg's is.
Perhaps I can read about it somewhere or a short summary with
requirements etc can be given?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Jeroen

On 2018-10-23 12:54, Wayne Beaton wrote:

If you want to keep content under the project's control, it needs to
become project code. The first step to do that is to convince the PMC
that it makes sense to do so (i.e. convince them that forking is
desirable and in the best interests of the project and the Eclipse
community). Then you need to engage the IP Team to get their review and 
approval.
HTH,
Wayne
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 6:27 PM Jeroen Koekkoek <jeroen@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Kai,
Well we need it primarily for our own Conan recipes (build dependency
build recipes), currently six or so, and faster Travis and AppVeyor
builds. The recipes are all written by me btw, so no forking involved
there.
That being said, and this just out of curiosity and trying to
understand
the reasons, mcpp is very likely to become a dependency for cyclonedds, 
one that we must have to do code generation. mcpp is a fine project,
but
it's not very actively maintained. I could just write a Conan recipe
and
keep some patches on the side, or I could fork it under the ADLINK-IST 
GitHub organization, but it all boils down to the same thing really.
What's wrong with keeping a dependency directly under the projects
control? Keeping some level of control over it is actually why I
thought
it would be a good idea.
Cheers,
Jeroen
On 2018-10-22 21:04, Kai Kreuzer wrote:
Hi Jeroen,
Please wait with creating an according Bugzilla ticket - while it is in general technically possible, we would like to discuss this within the 
PMC (which is together at ECE this week).
Also note that a TLOrg won't allow you to add a (2) forked sourceforge project, so this actually won't help you much (EMO, correct me, if I am 
wrong).
Cheers,
Kai
Am 22.10.2018 um 18:12 schrieb Jeroen Koekkoek <jeroen@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
Hi Wayne,
Never mind. I saw a GitHub Organization request for a different
project, so I know what to do now. Thanks for your help.
Best regards,
Jeroen
P.S.
Should anyone find this thread in search of the same information,
here's an example of a BugZilla ticket requesting a GitHub Organization 
for a project: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=539829
On 2018-10-22 17:45, Jeroen Koekkoek wrote:
Hi Wayne,
I take it you mean requesting another repository under the Eclipse
organization? I can't find any bugs regarding the promotion to to a
top-level GitHub project?
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Jeroen
On 2018-10-22 16:50, Wayne Beaton wrote: We added this sort of support recently. Open a bug against Community/GitHub to ask the webmaster for 
assistance.
Wayne
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 14:29 Kai Kreuzer, <kai@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Jeroen,
I very much doubt that this is possible. Afaik, ALL Eclipse projects
are under the eclipse github org and that's mandatory. For a definitive 
answer on this, you might want to contact EMO.
Note that it is possible to request additional repositories for your
sub projects / components, though (see e.g.
https://github.com/eclipse/smarthome-packaging-sample, which belongs to 
the SmartHome project, where the main repo is
https://github.com/eclipse/smarthome) - simply create a Bugzilla issue 
for it and the webmasters will provision it for you.
Regards,
Kai
Am 22.10.2018 um 12:04 schrieb Jeroen Koekkoek <jeroen@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
Hi All,
I've got a question regarding the possibility of making cyclonedds a
top-level GitHub project. I'm not sure if this is the right list to ask 
that question, if it isn't, please let me know the right list. If it
is, and I'm looking at the problem in the wrong way, please let me know 
too. It's just that making it a top-level project seems like the best
solution.
There's two reasons for me to want to promote it to a top-level GitHub 
project.
1. Faster Travis and AppVeyor builds. Right now builds for pull
requests take a long time and that'll only get worse when more projects 
are going to join.
2. Dependencies. We're planning on implementing a better IDL compiler
to get quicker build and drop the Java dependency. Because we're
looking to implement support for more language bindings, now seems like 
the right time to do that. Now, the IDL compiler will need a
preprocessor. We've more-or-less decided to go with mcpp
(http://mcpp.sourceforge.net/). The product itself is hosted on
SourceForge, which is a little slow and code is still hosted in svn.
The biggest problem however is that the original author isn't doing any work on the project anymore and nobody can accept patches etc. For that 
reason we want to "fork" it (svn import on GitHub) to fix some small
bugs etc. In my opinion hosting the project under a top-level
cyclonedds GitHub project is the best place. That way it's neatly
separated from the cyclonedds code while all members/privileges etc can 
be managed by the project leads and committers.
Please let me know if it's possible or if there are better ways to go
about this.
Best regards,
Jeroen Koekkoek
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--
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EclipseCon Europe 2018: LUDWIGSBURG, OCTOBER 23 - 25
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Germany
phone: +49 89 2050 71286
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