| Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting? |
If you haven't already, please read this:
https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/msg01071.html
In this long run, this is good for us.
I just noticed that Codenvy doesn't have a representative on the Architecture Council. As a Strategic Developer, they should have one. It'd be good to have them involved in this conversation. I'll start the process to make that happen.
Wayne
On 15/03/16 10:54 PM, Jay Jay Billings wrote:
What I don't understand is why we can't market both? They cover different spaces and we can delineate them. Che is for institutional cloud-based installs and Eclipse is for the single workstation. This is the difference between Che being "the" next generation Eclipse IDE and it being "a" next generation Eclipse IDE.
I think I would personally be happy if the Che guys just left some marketing room for Eclipse and stopped making it sound like everyone was jumping ship.
One cool thing we could do would be to make a YouTube video showing someone doing a project in Che and then connecting to it with Eclipse and SSH. Tyler didn't go into detail about how to do that, but he mentioned it a lot. Then we could be talking more about convergence.
Jay
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Jay Jay Billings <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I'm going to change the subject on this thread and wax philosophically about technical ideas related to the IDE because I don't want to interfere with this discussion.
Jay
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik <konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The other angle to consider is how this plays out at management level. It’s very difficult to argue that you need more resources to work on Eclipse IDE when the management sees Eclipse Foundation at least tacitly endorsing something else as a path forward.
I don’t recall similarly problematic messaging when Orion was getting started.
Thanks,
- Konstantin
From: Doug Schaefer
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:01 AM
To: eclipse.org-architecture-council
Subject: Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting?
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Wayne Beaton <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
We refocused. EclipseCon 2016 had more tracks than previous years and the programme committee certainly pumped up the desktop IDE content. This is a trend that I believe we'll continue.
I'll admit that there are subtleties in marketing that I don't understand. Harmful is in the eye of the beholder.
I believe it was Ed who pointed out that there are people in the community, on the newcomers list, who were confused about the messaging, about whether they should be abandoning the Eclipse IDE for Che. I think we concluded at the meeting that that was harmful.
Wayne
On 15/03/16 12:47 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:
> Clearly, we have a perception problem.
Indeed
> I'm not convinced that the data supports your position: there was plenty
> of content at EclipseCon focused on the desktop IDE and related projects.
> Including two of my talks and at least one of the keynotes.
It’s not my position. I am conveying what I heard from the marketing department when I asked why Oracle wasn’t sponsoring this year’s EclipseCon. At dev level, I can tell you that many here have given up on submitting talk proposals because talks focused on traditional desktop IDE areas have not been getting accepted in the last few years.
> The "next generation" messaging is not coming from the Eclipse Foundation,
> it's coming from the Che project. I understand that this distinction may be lost
> on the greater community.
Are you saying that Eclipse Foundation is not able to exert influence over a member project to stop this harmful messaging?
Thanks,
- Konstantin
From: Wayne Beaton
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:35 AM
To: Konstantin Komissarchik; eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting?
All of our efforts around FEEP are concerned with putting energy into the desktop IDE. Moving Mikael into the development position is also concerned exclusively with the desktop IDE. The Eclipse Foundation has never employed developers before. Our first development effort contracts and hire are exclusively concerned with addressing long standing issues with the desktop IDE. Clearly, we have a perception problem.
I'm not convinced that the data supports your position: there was plenty of content at EclipseCon focused on the desktop IDE and related projects. Including two of my talks and at least one of the keynotes.
The "next generation" messaging is not coming from the Eclipse Foundation, it's coming from the Che project. I understand that this distinction may be lost on the greater community.
Again, we have an opportunity with the press attention on Che to steal some of that attention for the desktop IDE. What are we going to do about it?
WayneOn 15/03/16 12:24 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:
I see Che’s messaging as a serious issue. To a lay person, the fact that this message is coming from an Eclipse Foundation project lends it authority. Many wouldn’t understand that this is just another project trying something new rather than the official path forward endorsed by the community bringing them the current Eclipse IDE.
More broadly, it seems to me that Eclipse Foundation is focusing primarily on new initiatives outside of desktop IDE space these days. Oracle’s marketing department did not sponsor this past EclipseCon because the content has been less and less relevant to desktop IDE space, which is our main reason for involvement.
Thanks,
- Konstantin
From: Wayne Beaton
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 8:32 AM
To: eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting?
Che is giving us some visibility. How do we leverage this? How do we encourage people who are looking at Che to maybe give the desktop IDE a fresh look?
WayneOn 15/03/16 05:12 AM, Eike Stepper wrote:
Am 14.03.2016 um 21:03 schrieb Doug Schaefer:
Oh, and our discussion on Che and the impact calling it the "Next Generation Eclipse IDE" has on the existing IDE and community was really good too :).
So can we do something to make the situation better for us?
I googled https://www.google.de/search?q=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&oq=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 and they seem to like this term a lot ;-(
Cheers
/Eike
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http://www.esc-net.de
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper
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Oak Ridge National LaboratoryTwitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
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