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Re: [eclipse-dev] Do we still need ICU4J?
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 10:43, Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 10:39 AM Ed Willink <ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi

The version changes via JDT succeeded in breaking QVTo in 2018.

Consequently ICU4J was coded out of QVTo. https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=537694

OCL continues to have a use ICU4J if it's on the classpath else fall back.


So this is yet another case of ICU4J being maintenance burden.
And not a single reason for still using ICU4J nowadays!

Speaking of maintenance burden.... As a downstream integrator that has to rebuild everything from source, fewer packages to build is better, especially as icu4j uses an old school any/ivy build system instead of standard maven.
 
 

Let's lose the legacy millstone.

    Regards

        Ed Willink

On 18/02/2020 19:19, akurtakov wrote:
I'll give few more days to hear a reason why we should keep ICU4J before opening a bug.

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 9:18 PM Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Alex, please open a bug for the work and lets move the discussion to the bug.

Best regards, Lars

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 7:42 PM Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 8:24 PM Tom Schindl <tom.schindl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> You can not remove it eg eclipse-databinding has it baked into its API. Hence the only way forward is to make icu-base a valid artifact one can put on maven central.
>
>
> Thinking more about it  - JDT can move away from it as it doesn't depend on databinding (at least the parts used by jdt.ls). So potential deprecation in eclipse.databinding can go for the needed period of time while others benefit way sooner.
>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>>
>> Am 18.02.2020 um 19:21 schrieb akurtakov <akurtakov@xxxxxxxxx>:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 8:03 PM Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow. Worry about 13MB. If so, they can use ICU Base.
>>
>>
>> There is no ICU Base it has been a weird artifact delivered only in Eclipse via a crippled build. As it's not on Maven central I claim that even ICU4J project doesn't consider this a viable option.
>> And this is not answering the question what do we need ICU4J nowadays?
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dani
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:        Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To:        "General development mailing list of the Eclipse project." <eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Date:        18.02.2020 18:56
>>> Subject:        [EXTERNAL] Re: [eclipse-dev] Do we still need ICU4J?
>>> Sent by:        eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Alexander,
>>>
>>> I have multiple RCP customers which would be happy if the 13MB could
>>> be dropped from the platform.
>>>
>>> +1 for getting rid of it.
>>>
>>> Best regards, Lars
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 6:06 PM Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hey everyone,
>>> > In the past we needed ICU4J so Eclipse can support latest Unicode. But with the new JVM cadence Java supports ICU4J pretty much at the same time the JVM does. Keeping uptodate icu4j requires work in Orbit to get it integrated (and used to be non-trivial but this is hopefully improved now).
>>> > Considering that we are not doing very good work in keeping uptodate icu4j (master has 64.2 while latest is 65.1) we may even face a case where using icu4j is holding off people that run on latest JVM from proper Unicode support. Although, I don't believe that there is anything added in either JVM or ICU4J that is of any practical use for us. Reading http://site.icu-project.org/home/why-use-icu4j most of the reasons to use it are for pre Java 6.
>>> > I questioned the need for it after discussion with JDT.LS people what/why is it needed as it needlessly add 13MB which is huge size when deployed to thousands of containers. Eclipse RCP apps face the same issue for sure.
>>> > So do we still need for something or we can start phasing it out ?
>>> >
>>> > P.S. I know that would be probably 2 years of effort.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Alexander Kurtakov
>>> > Red Hat Eclipse Team
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Eclipse Platform project co-lead
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>>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Alexander Kurtakov
> Red Hat Eclipse Team
> _______________________________________________
> eclipse-dev mailing list
> eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
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--
Eclipse Platform project co-lead
CEO vogella GmbH

Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web: http://www.vogella.com
_______________________________________________
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--
Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse Team
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