I just want to avoid what happened with KDE when it (coincidentally
enough) turned 4.0. It’s introduction was a disaster that put a major dent in
their community.
Here’s a sample of what we don’t want to see: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9565
:D
From: eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Skerrett
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:22 PM
To: eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [eclipse-dev] Re: [e4-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release
I agree we need to be very careful to explain the
expectation and limitations of 4.0. For one, I would not expect to
see 4.0 available from the main eclipse.org/downloads page but from another
page. I think it is also very important we can answer the 'install
new software? question that Walter raises.
Maybe what we should have an Eclipse 4.0 end user landing page that is focused
on the download and expectation setting experience?
Ian
On 4/19/2010 12:25 PM, Walter Harley wrote:
I am not so concerned by adoption in products as I am by adoption
by naive users. The version increment will confuse some people who are
just trying to download whatever the latest & greatest is in order to learn
Eclipse. We need to make it very clear, on all the download pages, what
the functionality and status is.
Specifically, since we've been training users that it's okay to
install a base package of Eclipse and then install additional features after
the fact with P2, we need to state what Eclipse functionality is not yet
available for 4.0. Otherwise we'll be fielding lots of newsgroup
questions along the lines of "I installed 4.0 but when I go to install
software, it doesn't show any Java tools. Is the website broken?"
(I spend enough of my time just helping user N+1 discover that the
Windows zip utility is unreliable and that a JRE is required...)
Thanks, and congratulations!
-walter
From: eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Ian Skerrett
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:22 AM
To: eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [eclipse-dev] Re: [e4-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release
I think Eclipse SDK 4.0 is the most logical name. It
is important we have a stable release so people will start to experiment and
investigate. I agree that it without the rest of the Eclipse stack
the appeal for adoption will be marginal.
On 4/19/2010 11:03 AM, John Arthorne wrote:
I think
regardless of the name or the quality of the release, it won't be widely
adopted in products until it is part of the release train. You will be able to
run the base SDK, but without the rest of the Eclipse stack and the EPP
packages it will have limited appeal. As for the name, are you suggesting that
we just don't give the release a traditional version number? From past
discussions on release names it seems people really like having version numbers
so they can keep all the releases straight. So, given that it contains major
changes and comes after 3.6, the number 4.0 seems like the only logical version
number for it.
Besides, we
need to start incrementing our release version numbers so we can catch up to
CDT ;)
John
I
have to admit I’m surprised by the numbering. Calling it 4.0 signals that it’s
ready to deploy into product. Are you saying it’s ready for that? Or should it
be called something like a super-milestone, or preview, or alpha?
Doug.
From: eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Ian Bull
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 1:01 PM
To: E4 Project developer mailing list
Cc: eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [eclipse-dev] Re: [e4-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release
This is very exciting, thanks for the update John!
I have two questions about this.
First, have any of the Eclipse 3.x platform bundles changed in the 4.0 SDK?
If they have, what version numbers (and update descriptors) are they
using? I'm wondering if we can install Helios and "upgrade" to
the 4.0 SDK, and then use the 3.x update sites for the PDE/JDT/Platform
updates? Or, once you go to the 4.0 SDK will you be required to use the
4.0 update sites for everything? -- Maybe it's a little too early to try
this yet.
Secondly, what should we (Eclipse committers) be telling people about Eclipse
4.0? Obviously there are lots of people who simply use Eclipse as their
IDE of choice. Are the plans to produce EPP packages for Eclipse 4.0?
I imagine that when we release Eclipse 3.6 and a month later release
Eclipse 4.0, there will be some confusion among users regarding what version
they should use. From what I can tell, it appears that there will be very
few "end user features" in Eclipse 4.0. However, I don't want
to discourage people from using it if it's the intended upgrade path (Install
3.6 and upgrade to 4.0 in July).
Again, this is awesome! I'm been following the e4 lists for at least 2
years now and it's really exciting to see all this work come together.
Congratulations to everyone involved.
cheers,
ian
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:59 AM, John Arthorne <John_Arthorne@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
For the past eight months we have been working towards a July 2010 release
tentatively called the e4 1.0 release. One of the major goals of this release
was to bring the e4 technology delivered in our July 2009 "0.9"
release up to a level of maturity and stability that we could run the Eclipse
platform and its ecosystem of plug-ins on top of it. As a community we have
been referring to this combination of the existing Eclipse platform with e4
technology as "Eclipse 4.0".
Last week we began building the full Eclipse 4.0 SDK, and delivered it as part
of our M5 milestone. This build combines some e4 components, the e4
compatibility layer, and the Eclipse project 3.6 SDK. With this milestone it is
time to switch emphasis from incubating e4 work to focus on graduating,
polishing, and delivering this Eclipse 4.0 SDK. Since this combined release
incorporates plug-ins from several Eclipse sub-projects, it would be incorrect
to call it an e4 release. To reflect this reality, and our primary emphasis on
the Eclipse 4.0 SDK deliverable, the Eclipse project PMC has decided to take
the following steps:
- We will no longer refer to the "e4 1.0 release" in our plans and
downloads after M5. We will instead call our July 2010 release the
"Eclipse SDK 4.0" release. This deliverable will combine components
from the Eclipse Platform, JDT, PDE, Equinox, ECF, and EMF out of the Helios
release, with the e4 components required to build the Eclipse 4.0 SDK.
- CSS Styling, Modeled Workbench, and some of the core e4 programming model infrastructure
have matured in e4 and will move into the Eclipse Platform project prior to the
July release. This new technology allows building the Eclipse 4.0 SDK on top of
it, which thus only depends on graduated components.
- e4 _javascript_ tooling has been moved to the JSDT project under the Webtools
top-level project.
- Other components such as SWT Browser Edition, _javascript_ modularity, XWT,
Toolkit Model, Bespin Server, and the new e4 resources work around semantic
file systems are going to remain in the e4 incubator for now. These components
have not reached the level of stability and community required for graduation
into a mature project. We will continue to evaluate whether more components
should graduate either in this release or later releases, based on their
progress and adoption.
- The e4 components that remain in the incubator will release simultaneously
with the Eclipse top-level project's 4.0 release, and will be available in a
separate release repository, much like the Helios repository and EPP packages
incorporate both incubating and mature components in a single release. Since we
intend to keep the e4 project as a perpetual incubator, it doesn't make sense
to attach a traditional version number to the incubating e4 portion of the
release. Where necessary, we will refer to the e4 incubator portion as the
"e4 July 2010" downloads (for example on the e4 downloads page).
Version numbers of individual e4 plug-ins will evolve according to the Eclipse
project's standard version numbering guidelines.
- We will continue running e4 incubator builds throughout the July 2010 release
cycle (and beyond). In addition we will run Eclipse project 4.0 stream builds.
Until the Eclipse project Helios release is completed, we will run these 4.0
stream builds out of the "R4_HEAD" branch of the Eclipse project
repository. Note that the vast majority of plug-ins don't require branching,
and will be consumed directly from the "R3.6" version tag produced by
the Helios release.
A draft plan of the Eclipse Project 4.0 release is now available [1]. This plan
is quite similar to our previous e4 plan, with the same milestones and
timeline, and most of the same plan items.
[1] http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_0.xml
The Eclipse PMC
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R. Ian Bull | EclipseSource Victoria | +1 250 477 7484
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