| Re: [ecd-pmc] PMC Approval required for Committer Election for Milan Melisik on Eclipse Che4z |
ok, thanks for the update Wayne.What you outline here has merit. We will review what you've provided and figure out to what extent we can improve the 'openness' of the project. As you can imagine, it won't likely be a quick change. In the short term, what can be done with the committer request?On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 2:52 PM Eclipse Management Office EMO <emo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Thanks for your reply, Scott.My observation is that the project team periodically creates a branch in the repository, populates that branch with five commits that based on the commit message contain "code", "tests", "documentation", "configuration", and "license" updates, merges that branch, and then deletes it. Based on this, I assume that they're doing their actual development elsewhere, most likely in a server that sits inside the corporate environment.If this assumption is incorrect, or if I am missing something important, please advise.The fundamental problem with the approach that I've observed is that it makes the project completely impenetrable to anybody who does not have access to the repository where the day-to-day work is actually happening. Making changes and contributing them back to the project is extremely difficult when the day-to-day evolution of the code is not accessible. That is, the project is cutting off most of their potential for contributions from outside of the core team themselves.The open source rules of engagement in the Eclipse Foundation Development Process define three fundamental principles of open source development: openness, transparency, and meritocracy.While this teams mode of operating is at least nominally transparent, it is not particularly open to participation by others, and without being open to participation by others it is impossible to develop any merit to earn privileges with the project. Note that I describe the team's practice as nominally transparent because the commit record doesn't actually tell a story about the evolution of the content, it just records that changes happened.I am happy to discuss this further. It's important to me that committers and project leads understand why we have the rules that we have.I've written some blog posts on this topic:WayneOn Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 1:55 PM Scott Davidson <scott.davidson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hi WayneAdding Gorkem here in case this email doesn't make it to these distribution lists.There is no specific reason why this team is working this way. We don't necessarily 'force' a team to not work in this manner. If the team sees value in working this way, are continually improving, are engaged and happy, we don't see much upside in pushing them to conform to how other teams operate.Scott.On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 1:32 PM Eclipse Management Office EMO <emo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Based on a cursory look, it appears that this is the only repository that's being used in this manner.That is... it does appear that the project team understands the value of working directly in the public repository in most cases, but this repository seems to be a special case.Scott, is there a reason why the team has adopted a "periodically throw the code over the wall" approach for the che-che4z-explorer-for-endevor repository?WayneOn Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 9:37 AM Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:_______________________________________________Adding Scott on CC because he is not on the PMC mailing list.--GorkemOn Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 3:18 AM Martin Lippert <mlippert@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hey Gorkem,_______________________________________________Thanks a lot for forwarding this, much appreciated.I think I still need to understand in more detail. Does this mean the team is not really working on the GitHub project in the open, but pushing all the changes they made for a specific cycle via one PR into the public GitHub repo?When looking at the public GitHub repo that was mentioned here, I can indeed see that someone from the team pushes a commit called "apply code changes“ every once in a while. From your description it sounds like those "apply code changes“ commits contain all the changes that went in for a specific timeframe. Are all those code changes in each "apply code changes“ commit authored by that committer who pushes that commit?So in the case of https://github.com/eclipse-che4z/che-che4z-explorer-for-endevor/pull/318, Milan authored all the code changes that went into the single "apply code changes“ commit for the 1.5.0 release?Would be great to get a few more insights here… :-)Many thanks in advance!MartinAm 01.06.2023 um 23:04 schrieb Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx>:_______________________________________________FYI...---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Scott Davidson <scott.davidson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ecd-pmc] Fwd: PMC Approval required for Committer Election for Milan Melisik on Eclipse Che4z
To: Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx>Hi GorkemI can't send to that distribution group, the last email bounced back. Sorry to make you the middle man, but can you pass along my comments?The team uses a big PR when a new release (1.x.0) is published because it is developed locally within our repo and then published. So you are seeing the result of the team's work. One person from the team publishes to Eclipse repo.See similar comments and approach for previous commits, eg Roman or Nikolai publishing PRs:Let me know if further info or clarification is needed.Scott.On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 1:34 PM Scott Davidson <scott.davidson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Thanks for the email GorkemLet me talk with the team in Prague tomorrow and get back to you.Thanks,Scott.On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 11:46 AM Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I did not realize that this feedback has not reached the che4z project, and it looks like it has got stuck on their end.Adding Scott for awareness.--GorkemOn Thu, May 11, 2023 at 4:32 AM Martin Lippert <mlippert@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hey!_______________________________________________This committer election looks a bit weak to me. There is only one PR being referenced. Looks like the PR contains a whole bunch of things in it (which feels to me a bit strange as well to have one commit called "apply code changes“, which changes hundreds of files). But that is probably a question for the team how they structure their commits and code repo.Any thoughts?CheersMartinAnfang der weitergeleiteten Nachricht:Von: emo--- via ecd-pmc <ecd-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>Betreff: [ecd-pmc] PMC Approval required for Committer Election for Milan Melisik on Eclipse Che4zDatum: 11. Mai 2023 um 06:04:58 MESZAn: ecd-pmc PMC List <ecd-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>Kopie: emo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Eclipse Che4z Dev List <che4z-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>Antwort an: Eclipse cloud development PMC discussions <ecd-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>The Committer Election for Milan Melisik on project Eclipse Che4z
(ecd.che.che4z) concluded successfully.
PMC leads and members can click the election link below to review and
approve.
Election:
https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/ecd.che.che4z/elections/election-milan-melisik-committer-eclipse-che4z
Project: https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/ecd.che.che4z
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--The Eclipse Management Organization | Eclipse Foundation--Scott Davidson
Sr. Principal Architect | Mainframe Software Division
Broadcom Software
office: 631.533.8407 | mobile: 631.708.6387
100 Baylis Rd | Melville, NY 11747
scott.davidson@xxxxxxxxxxxx | broadcom.com
This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any printed copy of it.