Absolutely. I’m just going to check
on what the process is if we decide to put this together.
Focusing on a common workflow that a lot
of people are doing in a non-commercial setting definitely would be a great
place to start - the example you mentioned in particular, seeing what’s
going on over at Android…
From:
dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Oberhuber, Martin
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007
3:38 PM
To: General discussion of device
software development platform issues.
Subject: RE: [dsdp-dev] Single
distribution tarball for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/R SE
Hi Doug's,
I'd propose that before proposing an
"Embedded" package to EPP, we should
have a good understanding ourselves of
what such a package should look like.
What are the plugins that are specifically
relevant for the embedded developer?
What's needed to get going when working
embedded? I think that these are
some questions we ought to understand
better in the DSDP space than in
the EPP space.
I haven't analyzed this in detail, but my
feeling is that there are at least some
components which are extremely helpful for
an embedded developer, but which
are not hosted at the Eclipse Foundation.
Some examples?
Or what would you folks think make up a
good "Embedded CDT" package?
Let's focus on Embedded CDT here for a start,
knowing that Embedded
Java is something different.... my
personal feeling is that consumers
are better off with a good FAQ / Readme
etc on how to properly consume
the current EPP package(s), the Europa /
Ganymede site(s) and Eclipse
Plug-In Central.
And, hopefully P2 will make it easier in
the future to get everythign
provisioned automatically... just imagine
dependencies from any number
of sites / plugin-repositories resolved
fast and automatically just like
in Debian Linux apt-get...
But perhaps it would make sense to focus
on (a) specific user group,
perhaps picking a toolchain for a
simulator to start. TmL / QEMU
might be a nice target to start with.
Targeting hobbyists / students
to get started with embedded development.
Having a talk with
a Product Marketing person could also help
here...
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber
Wind River Systems, Inc.
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From: dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Gaff, Doug
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007
9:13 PM
To: General discussion of device
software development platform issues.
Subject: RE: [dsdp-dev] Single
distribution tarball for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/R SE
Doug, do you know
how we can get this going in EPP? I’m not very familiar with the
project.
Doug G
From:
dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007
12:59 PM
To: General discussion of device
software development platform issues.
Subject: RE: [dsdp-dev] Single
distribution tarball for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/R SE
Yes, I think an EPP package like an
“Eclipse IDE for Embedded” would be an excellent idea. This would
be a great way for people who are hacking around on their own with open source
runtimes to get an instant setup for Eclipse.
The question will be what runtimes to
provide support for and what plug-ins to include. And, as with the
“Eclipse IDE for C/C++” that we have in Europa, after you download
it, you still need to have a compiler, debugger, and other necessary tools from
other sources to do the grunt work. So it’s not truly an IDE, or at least
not a complete one.
Something we should think about, though.
From:
dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Oberhuber, Martin
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007
12:47 PM
To: General discussion of device
software development platform issues.
Subject: RE: [dsdp-dev] Single
distribution tarball for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE
Hi Jim,
The "combined downloads" you
meantion for CDT are created by the Eclipse
Packaging Project (EPP). They kind of hand-pick the most widely requested
combinations to create starting packages.
But that approach does not scale
when people want more tuned collections of
packages.
Yes, commercial vendors like Wind River and QNX make their pick of plugins
and deliver an integrated environment. We
cannot do that in open source
because we don't know what exactly our
clients need. That's where the
Update Manager / Eclipse Discovery Site
mechanism tunes in, which is used
for Europa and Ganymede.
Start with the EPP CDT Package Download,
then Help > SOftware Updates
> Find and Install > Europa
Discovery Site. Select what you think you need,
then "Select Required" to get
all dependencies. Very much like the Linux
packagers (like Yast, APT and the like).
More plugins can be acquired from Eclipse
Plugin Central (EPC).
It currently doesn't go much simpler,
though improvements to the update
manager are underway as part of P2
(Provisioning Project, currently part
of the Equinox incubator).
In terms of getting started and delivering
your favorite pick of plugins --
I suggest that you just install Eclipse
locally, use Update Manager to
get what you need, then ZIP up the entire
local installation; inside the
ZIP archive, remove the
"configuration/" folder except for the file
config.ini
What you get is exactly a combined package of all
the plugins you
downloaded, ready to deliver to your
colleagues.
Does that help?
Is that the kind of information you'd like
to see in an FAQ?
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber
Wind River Systems, Inc.
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From:
dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007
6:27 PM
To: General discussion of device
software development platform issues.
Subject: Re: [dsdp-dev] Single
distribution tarball for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE
You will have to pardon me for being a rookie when it
comes to Eclipse. I am just getting started with it.
I see what you mean about Europa and Ganymede providing
checkpoints that nail down version integrity.
I suppose what I was hoping for was a merged up download
including DSDP and RSE like Eclipse/CDT at:
I see now that with so many plugins, it isn't necessarily
practical to anticipate some universally desired combination, and mechanisms
exist for users to add plugins as wanted.
I imagine vendors such as Wind River
and QNX who use Eclipse/CDT in commercial offerings will end up assembling the
kind of package I envision, streamlined for embedded developers. It would
be nice if we had a free, generic package that does the same, but that might be
hard to do since it might assume a particular target architecture or
development board type and toolchain.
I see that as an alternative to using the Eclipse hosted
Software Updates mechanism to install the DSDP and RSE plugins, there is also a
way to download ZIP files and (presumably) do a manual install. That
approach might give me the version integrity I seek, between annual releases
such as Europa and Ganymede. My objective is to have only a small set of
tested files, and a minimal installation procedure, that our embedded
developers can use to bring up identical Eclipse development platforms.
The missing piece may be a simple 'getting started' guide
that helps the Eclipse novice get Eclipse/CDT, DSDP, and RSE up and running
without so much web searching to learn what those projects are, how they all
tie together, and the best way to assemble them (which I don't think I know
yet). I suspect each novice re-invents this wheel.
That 'getting started' guide may already exist, and I just
haven't come across it yet. I would think this rises to the level of an
article at IBM developerworks, O'Reilly, or one of the monthly Linux print
magazines.
In any event, Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE looks great, and if the
price of admission is a few days of web searching to figure it all out, it is
still well worth it.
----- Original Message
----
From: "Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: General discussion of device software development platform issues.
<dsdp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:50:28 AM
Subject: RE: [dsdp-dev] Single distribution tarball for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE
Hello Jim,
The Eclipse "Europa" and
"Ganymede" coordinated release trains
seem to do what you want - simultaneous
releases with version
integrity:
http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ganymede.php
You don't get a single tarball, but you
can get Eclipse Platform
and then grab all the other projects from
the Ganymede Update
Site in a single step.
Besides, I'm not sure what you mean with a
"DSDP" project?
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber
Wind River Systems, Inc.
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From:
dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007
5:35 PM
To: dsdp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [dsdp-dev] Single
distribution tarball for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE
I recently experimented with using Eclipse/CDT plus DSDP
and RSE to cross-compile and cross-debug from an x86 host running Fedora Core
to an ARM9 embedded target.
It works great, and I would like to consider using this
combination in a production environment. But installing the several
plugins from CVS and carrying the plugins around as part of my project gives me
pause.
Are there plans to roll up official versions of Eclipse,
CDT, DSDP, and RSE, and release them as a single, convenient distribution,
like Eclipse/CDT?
If I could save that single distribution tarball and
install it at will, with guaranteed version integrity, Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE is
rather compelling.
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