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RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
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Part of the IP due diligence process that you agree to use when
submitting code to Eclipse.org is that you do not reasonably believe
that the software is affected by any patents, and that if you/your
company do hold such patents, that you grant Eclipse.org and its users a
royalty free license to the patent(s).
Chances are that if you find out that code you submit is covered by
someone else's patent, then the "offending" code would have to be pulled
and done differently.
I don't think that the Foundation wants to get into the business of
patent litigation. They are not the EFF. If it is something relatively
unimportant then I would assume that it would not be in their interest
to pursue a case. What if it were something more fundamental? Perhaps,
you never know. I don't think they'd sit idly and let someone cripple
the IDE market with a bogus patent. Maybe Bjorn and/or Mike can comment
further. I can't speak for the Foundation.
And for reference, I make no personal claims as to the validity or the
enforceability of the patent in question :-P Like I said, I'm just
letting you know it's there.
___________________________________________
Chris Recoskie
Software Designer
Texas Instruments, Toronto
http://eclipse.org/cdt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kirk Beitz
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 3:46 PM
> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> Subject: Re: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>
> still ... there was other prior art (i can think of one IDE i was
> associated with that had a "mixed" mode that sounds identical to the
TI
> offering, right down to the language of the 2002 patent ... an IDE
which
> had this integrated facility as far back as 1998) ...
>
> i'll grant that it's not all that surprising that the u.s. patent
office
> saw fit to grant a software patent for something like this despite the
> probable prior art.
>
> i guess the reason i'm following on to this thread is that i wonder
what
> the eclipse organization's stance would be on this or any other patent
> for which it believed prior art existed. let's say a patent popped up
> for breakpoint buttons beside source-lines. does the eclipse
> organization have enough of a vested interest to go to bat on keeping
> such a thing? enough clout? where is the line drawn?
>
> i'm not at all trying to pick a fight here with chris or TI, but this
> mixed assembly view does provide a good example. let's say eclipse
> users overwhelmingly want a mixed-mode in an editor window, and we
know
> it's not rocket-science to implement this. let's say only for the
sake
> of argument for the moment that TI is not so willing to just grant
usage
> rights to this particular patent to eclipse.org. will the eclipse org
> cave to the precedent of the TI patent? if so, i guess chris's
original
> point has a lot of bearing on the direction eclipse contributors are
> going to pursue with simultaneous source/assembly debugging.
>
> ++ kirk
>
>
> Recoskie, Chris wrote:
> > Yeah the reasons for putting it in the same editor window were
somewhat
> > ephemeral IMO. In CCS, once you switch into what we call "Mixed
Mode"
> > you are disallowed from editing the code so you pretty much lose
most of
> > the benefit of it being in the editor.
> >
> > There are a few nice things though. It syncs your cursor position
when
> > you switch back and forth between modes so it's easy to look up the
> > instructions for a given line of C code and then go back to editing
the
> > C source. Since it's linked to an editor it also picks up the
syntax
> > highlighting from the editor for the C source statements.
> >
> > The disassembly is refreshed based on changes to target memory but
no
> > round-trip hot swapping of code unfortunately. That *would* be cool
:-)
> >
> > ___________________________________________
> >
> > Chris Recoskie
> > Software Designer
> > Texas Instruments, Toronto
> > http://eclipse.org/cdt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> >> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:18 PM
> >> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> >> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>
> >> Well, the Using Visual C++ 5 book that I have in front of me right
> >>
> > now,
> >
> >> copyright 1997, shows their Disassembly View which interleaves
source
> >>
> > and
> >
> >> disassembly.
> >>
> >> Mind you it's a view and not an editor. But then, why would you
edit
> >>
> > in
> >
> >> this
> >> window? Does the assembly get updated based on the source changes
you
> >> make?
> >> Can you edit the assembly and have the source updated? (That'd be
> >>
> > cool,
> >
> >> BTW
> >> :).
> >>
> >> What was the original use case again?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
> >> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
> >> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Recoskie,
Chris
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:30 PM
> >> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> >> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>
> >> I'm guessing the person I was talking to was referring to US patent
#
> >> 6,493,868. Like I said I'm not a patent lawyer so I'm not going to
> >> comment as to whether or not it is truly applicable or not. It
seems
> >> very broad and I'm not sure of the rules as to how it does or does
not
> >> apply to specific features in IDEs.
> >>
> >> Anyway take a look and due your due diligence. It may be a non
issue.
> >>
> >>
> >> =====================
> >>
> >>
> >> United States Patent 6,493,868
> >> DaSilva , et al. December 10, 2002
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >> --------
> >> Integrated development tool
> >>
> >>
> >> Abstract
> >> An integrated code development tool, comprising of an editor, a
> >>
> > project
> >
> >> management and build system, a debugger, a profiler, and a
graphical
> >> data visualization system. The editor is operable to provide a
source
> >> code view which is simultaneously capable of integrating with said
> >> debugger to provide for stepping through code and setting
breakpoints,
> >> and integrating with the output of said build system to display
source
> >> code interleaved with corresponding assembler code created by said
> >>
> > build
> >
> >> system.
> >>
> >>
> >> ___________________________________________
> >>
> >> Chris Recoskie
> >> Software Designer
> >> Texas Instruments, Toronto
> >> http://eclipse.org/cdt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> >>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Cortell
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:51 AM
> >>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> >>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>>
> >>> If this is true, it's extremely surprising. Interleaved
> >>> source/disassemble is a staple in many debuggers. How a company
> >>>
> > would
> >
> >>> go about successfully patenting the implementation of such a
feature
> >>> in an open source product is puzzling, to say the least.
> >>>
> > Copyrighting
> >
> >>> an implementation is one thing; patenting the idea is another
story.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> At 10:28 AM 5/10/2006, Recoskie, Chris wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> A caveat:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have heard that TI holds a patent on showing interleaved
> >>>> source/disassembly in the editor window (but not in other
windows,
> >>>>
> > so
> >
> >>>> the current Disassembly View does not infringe this patent as I
> >>>> understand it). I don't think it would be any sort of problem to
> >>>>
> > get
> >
> >>>> this patent licensed royalty-free to Eclipse for such a feature,
> >>>>
> > but
> >
> >> it
> >>
> >>>> is an IP issue that will have to go through due diligence for
sure.
> >>>>
> >>>> Disclaimer: I am not a patent lawyer and I have no authority to
> >>>>
> >> license
> >>
> >>>> the aforementioned patent, if it exists, on behalf of TI.
> >>>>
> >>>> ___________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris Recoskie
> >>>> Software Designer
> >>>> Texas Instruments, Toronto
> >>>> http://eclipse.org/cdt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> >>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Cortell
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:19 AM
> >>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions;
> >>>>>
> >> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ewa,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What are the BV bug numbers? They're not Bugzilla reports from
> >>>>>
> >> what I
> >>
> >>>> can
> >>>>
> >>>>> tell.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I entered a bugzilla report for "Jump to Line" a while back
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=118147
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We are also very interested in mixed disassembler/source mode
> >>>>> debugging. It seems this would be best implemented if indeed all
> >>>>> three modes are provided in the editor. Your suggested approach
> >>>>>
> >> seems
> >>
> >>>>> feasible to me; the debugger could generate files on the fly.
> >>>>>
> > The
> >
> >>>>> trick would be to make that approach look natural to the user,
> >>>>>
> > so
> >
> >>>>> he's not aware that he's looking at a temporary file.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 08:46 PM 5/9/2006, Ewa Matejska wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm soliciting ideas for enhancements to the Editor to improve
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>> embedded development experience.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Possible ideas are:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1. Add the "Jump to Line" option the editor margin menu.
> >>>>>>
> >> BV118147.
> >>
> >>>>>> 2. Merge the Disassembly view into the Editor. This could be
> >>>>>> achieved in having a special read-only debug file for each
> >>>>>>
> > debug
> >
> >>>>>> session whose state would toggle between source, disassembly
> >>>>>>
> > and
> >
> >>>>>> mixed in some way. Related bug is BV39644.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> These ideas will be captured at:
> >>>>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/DSDP/DD/Editor
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Chris Recoskie, as the lead of the Disassembly View, what do
> >>>>>>
> > you
> >
> >>>>>> think of idea#2?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank You,
> >>>>>> Ewa.
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> > dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >
> >
>
> --
> - Kirk Beitz - vox:(858)272-8858 - fax:(858)273-8858 -
cell:(619)888-9408
> -
> - mailto:kirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - CodeWarrior -
http://www.codewarrior.com
> -
>
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