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RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS READ THIS AGAIN!]]
|
So just to be sure that I understand
what we've agreed on...
cosmos-mgmt: invitations and other PMC-like
notices
cosmos-dev: technical discussion, build
break notices
newsgroup: no change
Add "FYA" in the tag line
to mark something that needs our attention.
Add "ANN" in the tag line
to mark something that is an announcement such as an impromptu meeting.
Add "DUE <time>" in
the tag line to mark something that needs a response by a certain time,
such as a request for input or JUnit test results
And to avoid stratification, for now
wait and see if more changes are needed. We can check how this new system
is working as part of the i9 postmortem?
Ruth Lee
IBM Toronto Lab
ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx
T/L 313-4453
Mark D Weitzel <weitzelm@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/07/2008 08:31 AM
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Cosmos Dev <cosmos-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
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| RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS
READ THIS AGAIN!]] |
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OK...
We seem to be coming to the conclusion that we'd like to have multiple
mailing lists. I will point out that we do have COSMOS-MGMT list
already.
(https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cosmos-mgmt)
The one thing that I think we should consider with Ruth's suggestion is
that we are beginning to combine our meetings so that we are being more
effective. The Arch and DC and DV meetings have been combined into
a single, albeit longer meeting. I think we'd want to keep those
discussions together. Also, we have not mentioned the SDD work yet,
which currently is going into the ME project.
One of the concerns that I have is I don't want to have the information
become to "stratified". It's possible you'd miss something
b/c it's on a different list, rather than missing something b/c the one
list is flooded. Also, in TPTP, we sometimes saw the same message
posted to multiple lists. I think that's something we want to avoid
as well.
Given that we have cosmos-mgmt, we can start improving our work now. I
think we can all agree to post meeting notices, and other PMC like things
on that list. Although I disagree with David--I think build information
should be posted on the dev list. We can also agree to start using
the caps convention that Don and Ruth discuss. This will help get
things in order. As we go through this exercise, we'll be able to
determine how to organize the next list that we ask to be created.
-mw
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Mark Weitzel | STSM | IBM Software Group | Tivoli | Autonomic Computing
| (919) 543 0625 | weitzelm@xxxxxxxxxx
|
RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush
Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS READ THIS AGAIN!]] |
Ebright,
Don
| to:
| Cosmos Dev
|
02/07/08 07:44 AM |
Sent by:
| cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx |
Please respond to Cosmos Dev <cosmos-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
| |
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Ruth,
Your proposal sounds great as far as my needs are concerned. It would
make it easier for those of us who are pulled in many directions to avoid
neglecting the urgent business of the project during busy periods. The
COSMOS has many full-time people who probably have an easier time keeping
up, but reading a lot of email that isn't relevant is still a waste of
time that they could use more productively.
I concur with using automation wherever possible. Establishing separate
mailing lists is a nice automated way of tagging everything that would
otherwise accumulate in an unorganized way on cosmos-dev with minimum effort.
Your FYA was effective in attracting my attention, and I support using
it as a standard way of calling attention to items that require quick action.
I would also find it useful to have standard tags for other urgent
items like announcements to impromptu meetings or requests for input to
decisions that need to be made quickly. This would facilitate quick
triage of priority emails when it isn't possible to take the time to read
them all.
Don
From: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ruth Lee
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:00 PM
To: Cosmos Dev
Subject: RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS READ THIS]]
RE: "I've been in
meetings all day and now I have 50 unread cosmos-dev emails" moments."
... yes, been there. May I suggest a "FYA" (For Your Action)
subject line to mark those items that require action or with a deadline?
That's how I tagged the "weekly integration build" announcement
identifying the time that code has to be checked in to make the weekly
integration build. Not sure if that was sufficient to grab everyone's attention?
FYI, the "tptp-pmc" mailing list was the cross-project mailing
list that I was referring to. TPTP didn't post cross-project notes to more
than one list because several developers were in more than one project
and that meant that, in some cases, people received four copies of the
same email. (Would that be considered rush hour traffic?) ;o)
Instead of forcing the COSMOS PMC-like-leaders to read build break
notifications, are you okay with keeping cosmos-dev for cross-project notifications
to non-leaders and cosmos-mgmt for notifications to leaders?
I'm not keen on tagging messages with a project name. No reason other than
style preference. I like to automate everything I can.
Revised suggestion:
newsgroup: end-user stuff (consistent with other eclipse projects)
cosmos-dev: development items common to all subprojects, such as build
break notifications
cosmos-dv: data visualization
cosmos-dc: data collection
cosmos-rm: resource monitoring
cosmos-me: management enablement
cosmos-mgmt: PMC-like notifications
Is that okay?
Ruth Lee
IBM Toronto Lab
ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx
T/L 313-4453
"Ebright, Don"
<Don.Ebright@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/06/2008 06:01 PM
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| RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS
READ THIS]] |
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I think that the TPTP approach was fairly effective with one mailing list
per project and one for the PMC. This allowed developers to focus
on issues relevant to their project (or projects) without reading everything.
Project leads could prioritize reading their own project's list and
the PMC list.
I don't know if a NG vs mailing list division would be as useful. We
could probably accomplish more by splitting cosmos-dev by project or just
tagging the messages with a project name where relevant and using the cosmos-mgt
list for "PMC-like" issues. Cross-project issues could
be identified with all related projects or perhaps a special cross-project
tag. I do think that specifically marking action items or anything
with an implied deadline like a meeting invitation would be very helpful
in those "I've been in meetings all day and now I have 50 unread cosmos-dev
emails" moments.
BTW, the all-caps tagging may be more than was strictly required, but note
the quick response to this thread :)
Don
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From: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Julia McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:44 PM
To: Cosmos Dev
Subject: Re: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->READ THIS]]
I like the one-mailing-list-per-subgroup solution.
Julia McCarthy
julia@xxxxxxxxxx
Ruth
Lee <ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx>
Ruth Lee <ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/06/2008 04:00 PM
Please respond to
Cosmos Dev <cosmos-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
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|
TPTP had a different mailing list per subproject. Developers from that
subproject would subscribe to just their subproject's list and also to
the common (i.e., common to all subprojects) list. If we use that approach
in COSMOS, we'd get something like the following:
Option 1:
newsgroup: end-user stuff (consistent with other eclipse projects)
cosmos-dev: common to all subprojects, such as build break notifications
cosmos-dv: data visualization
cosmos-dc: data collection
cosmos-rm: resource monitoring
cosmos-me: management enablement
BTW, does anyone use the cosmos-mgmt or cosmos-pmc mailing lists?
Option 2:
Alternatively, we could:
- create a separate newsgroup for technical discussions (assuming that
we're allowed more than one newsgroup)
- keep the existing newsgroup for end user stuff
- use cosmos-dev for build break notifications, announcements of candidate
drivers, and other time-sensitive information.
- use cosmos-mgmt for discussions about suggested change of processes (e.g.
the creation of a weekly integration build)
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Ruth.
Ruth Lee
IBM Toronto Lab
ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx
T/L 313-4453
David Whiteman <David_Whiteman@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/06/2008 03:16 PM
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| Re: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->READ THIS]] |
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On other projects, the email lists tend to be for committer & design
discussions, and the newsgroups for user questions. Given that we don't
have an established user community, the newsgroup has been quiet. We could
move some discussion to the newsgroup, but I'm not sure how you would determine
which kind of info belongs there vs. the email list, unless it has to do
with how time-critical it is. So maybe we do design discussion on the newsgroup
and notices that everyone needs to see on the email list? We could also
look at creating multiple email lists or using subject line triggers to
help categorize the messages if we just stuck with the email list.
David
Mark wrote on 02/06/2008 03:00:30 PM:
>
> On the call today, Don indicated that the amount of traffic on the
mailing list is
> getting to the point where it's difficult to keep up.
>
> For a while, we were using the newsgroup as well as this mailing list.
That's
> tapered off, but we could try leveraging the newsgroup instead of
the mailing list
> if we think it would help reduce the traffic and make managing the
flow if
> information more manageable.
>
> Just thinking out loud....
>
> -Mark W._______________________________________________
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