Home » Eclipse Projects » Eclipse Platform » Skinnable Eclipse?
| Skinnable Eclipse? [message #58287] |
Sun, 01 June 2003 21:57  |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: tgm1024SiteNameMispelled.hotmale.com
Is eclipse going to be skinned eventually? If so using what? XUL?
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #58477 is a reply to message #58287] |
Mon, 02 June 2003 07:37  |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: burner.zclipse.org
On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 17:57:09 -0400, Muad'Dib wrote:
> Is eclipse going to be skinned eventually? If so using what? XUL?
SWT was explicitly designed to use native platform widgets to integrate as
much as possible with the user's platform (as opposed to the Swing/XUL
approach). If your platform provides skinning, then eclipse will use
whatever widget skin you set in your OS preferences. I use GTK on linux
and eclipse automatically runs with my favorite GTK theme.
mike
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #59910 is a reply to message #58477] |
Tue, 03 June 2003 03:47 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: tgm1024SiteNameMispelled.hotmale.com
In news:pan.2003.06.02.07.37.04.203171@zclipse.org,
Michael R Head <burner@zclipse.org> spoke unto us:
> On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 17:57:09 -0400, Muad'Dib wrote:
>
>
>> Is eclipse going to be skinned eventually? If so using what? XUL?
>
> SWT was explicitly designed to use native platform widgets to
> integrate as much as possible with the user's platform (as opposed to
> the Swing/XUL approach). If your platform provides skinning, then
> eclipse will use whatever widget skin you set in your OS preferences.
> I use GTK on linux and eclipse automatically runs with my favorite
> GTK theme.
ICBW, but themes like that aren't really skinning, unless I have totally
misunderstood what GTK can do. Full skinning would allow the entire
organization of the gui elements be changed around, not just the appearance
of any one of them.
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #60963 is a reply to message #59910] |
Tue, 03 June 2003 16:50 |
 Buddha Buddy
Messages: 47
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
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But you are still not getting the point.
A) SWT uses the native UI objects of the platform it is running on.
B) Eclipse is built on SWT.
Therefore, Eclipse uses the native UI objects of the platform it is
running on.
I'm not familiar with XP, but I believe it has true "skinning".
http://www.wincustomize.com/images/news/528200334726PM1.jpg
So, on Win XP, yes, Eclipse supports skinning.
On platforms that do not support native skinning, no, Eclipse does not
support skinning.
----
Buddha
Muad'Dib wrote:
> In news:pan.2003.06.02.07.37.04.203171@zclipse.org,
> Michael R Head <burner@zclipse.org> spoke unto us:
>
>>On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 17:57:09 -0400, Muad'Dib wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Is eclipse going to be skinned eventually? If so using what? XUL?
>>
>>SWT was explicitly designed to use native platform widgets to
>>integrate as much as possible with the user's platform (as opposed to
>>the Swing/XUL approach). If your platform provides skinning, then
>>eclipse will use whatever widget skin you set in your OS preferences.
>>I use GTK on linux and eclipse automatically runs with my favorite
>>GTK theme.
>
>
>
> ICBW, but themes like that aren't really skinning, unless I have totally
> misunderstood what GTK can do. Full skinning would allow the entire
> organization of the gui elements be changed around, not just the appearance
> of any one of them.
>
>
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #61012 is a reply to message #60963] |
Tue, 03 June 2003 17:27 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: tgm1024SiteNameMispelled.hotmale.com
In news:3EDCD1D8.7090309@hotmail.com,
Buddha <BuddhaBuddy@hotmail.com> spoke unto us:
> But you are still not getting the point.
>
> A) SWT uses the native UI objects of the platform it is running on.
> B) Eclipse is built on SWT.
>
> Therefore, Eclipse uses the native UI objects of the platform it is
> running on.
Even though skinning certainly works with native apps in XP, I'm suspicious
that it won't using a peer model in java because it would require changing
how the layout manager behaves. I will go learn more about the SWT now.
Side pondering:
One of the problems with the old native AWT components (peer model) was that
z-order was different on some systems like the mac than on the pc, and hence
you could not overlap windows reliably without detecting the underlying
system, and drawing them in the reverse order when needed.
Does this mean that eclipse is similarly doomed?
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #61128 is a reply to message #61012] |
Tue, 03 June 2003 17:53 |
Buddha Buddy
Messages: 47
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
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I'm not familiar with the guts of SWT, but I don't think it has that
problem. There is a different jar file for each platform, and different
source trees, so they can make sure everything behaves the same.
I don't think the layout managers should really be affected. All they
really care about is the bounds of a control. If a widget's skin changes
the size of the control, then the getBounds() should return the bounds
necessar to realize that control with it's skin.
Muad'Dib wrote:
> In news:3EDCD1D8.7090309@hotmail.com,
> Buddha <BuddhaBuddy@hotmail.com> spoke unto us:
>
>>But you are still not getting the point.
>>
>>A) SWT uses the native UI objects of the platform it is running on.
>>B) Eclipse is built on SWT.
>>
>>Therefore, Eclipse uses the native UI objects of the platform it is
>>running on.
>
>
>
> Even though skinning certainly works with native apps in XP, I'm suspicious
> that it won't using a peer model in java because it would require changing
> how the layout manager behaves. I will go learn more about the SWT now.
>
> Side pondering:
>
> One of the problems with the old native AWT components (peer model) was that
> z-order was different on some systems like the mac than on the pc, and hence
> you could not overlap windows reliably without detecting the underlying
> system, and drawing them in the reverse order when needed.
>
> Does this mean that eclipse is similarly doomed?
>
>
>
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #61442 is a reply to message #61128] |
Tue, 03 June 2003 19:49 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: tgm1024SiteNameMispelled.hotmale.com
Ah, now I see /your/ confusion to my question.
Even if it were just changing the size of the component, it would still be a
sledge hammer to the layout manager that might have been told to try to fit
X number of components in a certain configuration that cannot possibly work
when one of them changes shape.
But it's far worse than that: Skinning is not just changing the size of the
components. It's about moving them around entirely, and usually changing
their very shape.
In news:3EDCE09E.1040500@hotmail.com,
Buddha <BuddhaBuddy@hotmail.com> spoke unto us:
> I'm not familiar with the guts of SWT, but I don't think it has that
> problem. There is a different jar file for each platform, and
> different source trees, so they can make sure everything behaves the
> same.
>
> I don't think the layout managers should really be affected. All they
> really care about is the bounds of a control. If a widget's skin
> changes
> the size of the control, then the getBounds() should return the bounds
> necessar to realize that control with it's skin.
>
> Muad'Dib wrote:
>> In news:3EDCD1D8.7090309@hotmail.com,
>> Buddha <BuddhaBuddy@hotmail.com> spoke unto us:
>>
>>> But you are still not getting the point.
>>>
>>> A) SWT uses the native UI objects of the platform it is running on.
>>> B) Eclipse is built on SWT.
>>>
>>> Therefore, Eclipse uses the native UI objects of the platform it is
>>> running on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even though skinning certainly works with native apps in XP, I'm
>> suspicious that it won't using a peer model in java because it would
>> require changing how the layout manager behaves. I will go learn
>> more about the SWT now.
>>
>> Side pondering:
>>
>> One of the problems with the old native AWT components (peer model)
>> was that z-order was different on some systems like the mac than on
>> the pc, and hence you could not overlap windows reliably without
>> detecting the underlying system, and drawing them in the reverse
>> order when needed.
>>
>> Does this mean that eclipse is similarly doomed?
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #61807 is a reply to message #61442] |
Wed, 04 June 2003 03:34 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: burner.zclipse.org
On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 15:49:18 -0400, Muad'Dib wrote:
> But it's far worse than that: Skinning is not just changing the size of
> the components. It's about moving them around entirely, and usually
> changing their very shape.
Then the answer is probably not.
If you really think this is a desirable feature for a large application
like eclipse, then you should make a feature request in the bugzilla:
http://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/
The next version (3.0) of eclipse is supposed to have a rather different
UI from the current (2.1) release (though I'd be somewhat surprised if
that included allowing the user to change everything). You can read more
about that in the 3.0 project plan:
http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/eclipse_project_p lan_3_0.html
mike
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #61877 is a reply to message #61442] |
Wed, 04 June 2003 07:28 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: kc.imajazz.com
I'm using SWT on some prototyping projects at work that
involve something like skinning. The bottom line is that
skins are not directly supported, and can't be done well.
> But it's far worse than that: Skinning is not just
> changing the size of the components. It's about moving
> them around entirely, and usually changing their very
> shape.
I end up not using a layout. In fact, I end up with very
few widgets that are laid out manually.
My skin is a Label that displays a .gif of the (inelastic,
non-resizable) skin. Mouse (and key) listeners map cursor
positions onto active spots on the skin defined as polygons.
My clients don't ask for graphic hover and click feedback,
but it would be pretty easy. For an open way to map skins
onto controls, you'd probably want to define each control
via a bitmap mask to define the shape within the skin, and
with click|select|hover bitmaps. Wouldn't be that hard.
The final gotcha is the lack of support for transparency.
My Shell wants to be transparent, but alas... my prototype
lives in an dull, opaque rectangle. Luckily that's not a
big deal for my clients.
Cheers,
KC
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #61900 is a reply to message #61877] |
Wed, 04 June 2003 07:52 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: scheglov_ke.nlmk.ru
KC Jones <kc@imajazz.com> wrote:
> The final gotcha is the lack of support for transparency.
> My Shell wants to be transparent, but alas... my prototype
> lives in an dull, opaque rectangle. Luckily that's not a
> big deal for my clients.
For Win32 you can use SetWindowRgn function from small native part.
--
SY, Konstantin.
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #62145 is a reply to message #61877] |
Wed, 04 June 2003 11:32 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: tgm1024SiteNameMispelled.hotmale.com
In news:3EDD9FA4.FB483FCA@imajazz.com,
KC Jones <kc@imajazz.com> spoke unto us:
> I'm using SWT on some prototyping projects at work that
> involve something like skinning. The bottom line is that
> skins are not directly supported, and can't be done well.
>
>> But it's far worse than that: Skinning is not just
>> changing the size of the components. It's about moving
>> them around entirely, and usually changing their very
>> shape.
>
> I end up not using a layout. In fact, I end up with very
> few widgets that are laid out manually.
>
> My skin is a Label that displays a .gif of the (inelastic,
> non-resizable) skin. Mouse (and key) listeners map cursor
> positions onto active spots on the skin defined as polygons.
> My clients don't ask for graphic hover and click feedback,
> but it would be pretty easy. For an open way to map skins
> onto controls, you'd probably want to define each control
> via a bitmap mask to define the shape within the skin, and
> with click|select|hover bitmaps. Wouldn't be that hard.
There are some folks somewhere working on a java-xul called jXUL. Maybe
that'd help next time...
http://jxul.sourceforge.net/
>
> The final gotcha is the lack of support for transparency.
> My Shell wants to be transparent, but alas... my prototype
> lives in an dull, opaque rectangle. Luckily that's not a
> big deal for my clients.
Java also has alpha-channel support, though for buffered images. Having not
played with it yet, I'm not sure just how viable this for window rendering.
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| Re: Skinnable Eclipse? [message #62169 is a reply to message #61807] |
Wed, 04 June 2003 12:05 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: tgm1024SiteNameMispelled.hotmale.com
In news:pan.2003.06.04.03.34.53.877567@zclipse.org,
Michael R Head <burner@zclipse.org> spoke unto us:
....[riptearshredhackslashsnipcut]...
> If you really think this is a desirable feature for a large
> application like eclipse,
Sure! Skinning has moved from the cutesy rhelm to the serious "interaction
altering" world where you can change your interface to better suit what it
is that you like to do most often.
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