| How should I create desktop apps? [message #117260] |
Sun, 13 November 2005 06:19  |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: matkins.NOSPAMsoftlinksys.com
Hi:
I've been studying for 2 days straight and I still don't know the best
way to write Java based desktop GUI applications.
I'm really a Microsoft programmer, used to VB which so far is a WHOLE LOT
easier than anything I've seen Java.
Still, the thought of platform independent software and NON MICROSOFT
software is attractive.
I'm learning (correct me if I'm wrong) that after all the Java/platform
independent development we've finally concluded that platform independent
GUIs are not really feasable.
Am I wrong about this?
I've studied AWT and written some stuff in it and it is platform
independent but not very robust.
I've been looking into SWT (is it truely portable?) and JFace (I can't
find a JFace.jar or plugin anywhere in the World). Again is it portable?
Finally I'm seeing something called RCP Rich Client Platform and can't
tell if that has anything to do with developing GUIs or is more about
creating Eclipse plug-ins.
What I'd *like* to find is a way to build full robust desktop interfaces
using a GUI designer (like VB) that is fully portable.
By *portable* I mean what Java was originally so famous for:
being able to run on different platforms WITHOUT RECOMPILING ANYTHING for
each platform.
I looked at Jigloo, a GUI form designer. It was OK but confusing and a
bit clunky. For example, I created a menu bar and a menu and then
couldn't delete it. I put a button on a tab container (with Form layout)
and it insisted on being the width and height of the whole tab window.
I've got information overload right now and I'm trying to figure out what
is most important to learn. I know the Java language sufficiently, I'm
struggling with building the GUI.
So I ask, what is the BEST WAY to develop desktop GUI applications in
Java?
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| Re: How should I create desktop apps? [message #117273 is a reply to message #117260] |
Sun, 13 November 2005 08:04  |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: neerajkrishnag.gmail.com
I really can't understand why this question has been asked in eclipse
forum. But let me try to answer the eclipse way.
First of all, i don't agree with "we've finally concluded that platform
independent GUIs are not really feasable". Eclipse run on many platforms
and proven to be successful. You just need to write a plugin and leave the
other issues to eclipse framework. IBM has adopted this framework in
websphere and rational products and they have been successful.
Of course SWT is not robust on linux platforms, I remember reading some
doc on that. But SWT and JFace are portable. you can find jface.jar in
eclipse\plugins\org.eclipse.jface_3.0.0. YOu don't need to search the
whole world
There are SWT designers available, but i don't recommed for a newcomer.
Better write code using layouts in SWT.
If you want to design a desktop application using eclipse framework. You
should first write it as a plugin and then ship it as a eclipse product.
Then use a install shield and package it. Write back for more help
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| Re: How should I create desktop apps? [message #117413 is a reply to message #117273] |
Sun, 13 November 2005 11:00 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: murley.murley.murley
hi,
As i see your message, i have some confuse..
I also writing desktop application using SWT. But i do not write it as
plugin (write as RCP?). I don't know the difference between a java
application and RCP...
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| Re: How should I create desktop apps? [message #117606 is a reply to message #117273] |
Mon, 14 November 2005 15:28 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: ns_dkerber.ns_WarrenRogersAssociates.com
In article <16157fd9b19e336af1ae58b107bf5189$1@www.eclipse.org>,
neerajkrishnag@gmail.com says...
> I really can't understand why this question has been asked in eclipse
> forum. But let me try to answer the eclipse way.
> First of all, i don't agree with "we've finally concluded that platform
> independent GUIs are not really feasable". Eclipse run on many platforms
> and proven to be successful. You just need to write a plugin and leave the
> other issues to eclipse framework. IBM has adopted this framework in
> websphere and rational products and they have been successful.
There are plenty of others as well. Sybase's graphical database
managment console and most of their other tools are written completely
in java, and are distributed for many different operating systems.
> Of course SWT is not robust on linux platforms, I remember reading some
> doc on that. But SWT and JFace are portable. you can find jface.jar in
> eclipse\plugins\org.eclipse.jface_3.0.0. YOu don't need to search the
> whole world
>
> There are SWT designers available, but i don't recommed for a newcomer.
> Better write code using layouts in SWT.
>
> If you want to design a desktop application using eclipse framework. You
> should first write it as a plugin and then ship it as a eclipse product.
> Then use a install shield and package it. Write back for more help
I truly don't understand what you are saying, so please don't take it as
a flame:
This makes no sense to me. If I were writing a desktop application, why
would I write it as an Eclipse plugin? If it is intended to be a
standalone application I can distribute to customers, I might want to
use Eclipse to write it, but it wouldn't run in Eclipse for my end-
users.
--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).
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| Re: How should I create desktop apps? [message #117619 is a reply to message #117606] |
Mon, 14 November 2005 16:18 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: eclipse3.rizzoweb.com
David Kerber wrote:
>>If you want to design a desktop application using eclipse framework. You
>>should first write it as a plugin and then ship it as a eclipse product.
>>Then use a install shield and package it. Write back for more help
>
> I truly don't understand what you are saying, so please don't take it as
> a flame:
>
> This makes no sense to me. If I were writing a desktop application, why
> would I write it as an Eclipse plugin? If it is intended to be a
> standalone application I can distribute to customers, I might want to
> use Eclipse to write it, but it wouldn't run in Eclipse for my end-
> users.
Eclipse RCP is an excellent framework on which to build desktop
applications (hence the name, Rich Client Platform). I believe that is
what he was talking about when he said "write it as an Eclipse plug-in."
RCP was extracted from Eclipse exactly for that purpose.
You can get all the scoop about RCP here: http://www.eclipse.org/rcp/
HTH,
Eric
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| Re: How should I create desktop apps? [message #117717 is a reply to message #117413] |
Mon, 14 November 2005 20:52 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: nospam.cops.org
Well, it is possible to write desktop applications using only SWT or SWT +
JFace (JFace is a library created on top of SWT which offers some enhanced
functionality and widgets). Of course, in this approach, you would have to
handle all the internal "plumbing" required by a desktop application, as
well as create manually everything. This approach is good because it offers
you 100% control but, in the long term, it can be a nightmare to maintain
it.
On the other hand, there is the RCP. RCP is a stripped down Eclipse which
offers you a general framework on which you can build your own
functionality. This functionality comes in the form of plug-ins. This means
you have to learn how all the things work together in order to be able to
write your own extensions to this platform. You have the advantage that you
can focus on your own business logic and let the heavy "plumbing" to
Eclipse.
So there is no right or wrong approach. If you like the Eclipse's paradigms
(perspectives, views, editors, forms, preference editors, wizards, etc.) AND
your business logic can be fitted into these paradigms, then I suggest to go
down the RCP route. There is a book available about building RCP
applications: http://www.awprofessional.com/title/0321334612.
HTH,
Stelian
"murley" <murley@murley.murley> wrote in message
news:dl76bt$enq$1@news.eclipse.org...
> hi,
> As i see your message, i have some confuse..
>
> I also writing desktop application using SWT. But i do not write it as
> plugin (write as RCP?). I don't know the difference between a java
> application and RCP...
>
>
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