Home » Eclipse Projects » GEF » POLL: What will you be building with GEF?
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #1922 is a reply to message #1908] |
Thu, 16 May 2002 17:51   |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: mhaney.NOoneSPAMshield.com
We have an EDI framework that we are currently building a set of Eclipse
(actually WSAD) plugins for, both for in-house use and to distribute to our
customers as a toolkit they can use to maintain and extend our solution.
One of the pieces of this framework is a workflow engine, and something like
GEF would be perfect for laying out workflows.
I would be very interested in working on integrating GEF into our commercial
application and maybe even pitching in some help as needed and as my
schedule allows.
"Randy Hudson" <none@ibm.com> wrote in message
news:ac0pnk$n6$1@rogue.oti.com...
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| Re: POLL: What will you be building with GEF? [message #2109 is a reply to message #1908] |
Fri, 17 May 2002 01:17 |
 Colin Sharples
Messages: 61
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
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I don't (yet) have a work application for GEF, although somebody
mentioned visual workflow modelling, which would be useful.
However, in my spare time I write games, and I will probably use GEF for
that. An example would be a tool to create and edit maps (that's what my
bezier curve tool was for).
--
Colin M Sharples/New Zealand/IBM, IT Architect, BIS
sharples@nz1.ibm.com, t: 64-4-5769853, m: 64-21-402085, f: 64-4-5765616
"Sometimes I think the surest sign intelligent life exists
elsewhere in the Universe is that it's never tried to contact us"
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #2695 is a reply to message #1908] |
Mon, 20 May 2002 08:49 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: keil.surveycom.com
We are developing medical and web/enterprise
applications.
Therefore (though the idea of a complete medical
information system based on eclipse is a little further
away unless we get some MAJOR support ;) we
mostly work in those 2 areas.
One is medical visualization and imaging with Java
support as well as a (enhanced) form designer for our
MIS (Windows-based but Eclipse fits in there well :)
The existing one is written in VB, but as far as the
DB working with ODBC is not really a problem
(I know people who use it for production and have
no problems with it either) it seems to be a good
extension to our existing applications.
Another field is CMS (Content Management System)
and WYSIWYG tools connected to it. There I work with
partners who have developed frameworks for that and
who like Eclipse a lot since I have introduced them to it
in our common projects.
And of course the UML idea is a very good one. I also
work or have contact with companies who are in the
Business Intelligence and Business Visualization industry.
There not only UML but other forms of visualization and
modelling seem a very good way to use GEF.
Plus I hate the fact that XDE only works for WSAD so
a really OPEN tool (based on GEF) is one I would like
to see (and use or even take part in) a LOT.
Regards,
--
Werner Keil
keil@surveycom.com
President/CEO/CMV
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #3096 is a reply to message #1908] |
Mon, 20 May 2002 08:57 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: keil.surveycom.com
And after all doesn't it seem (from the screenshots though they
are somehow "electronic") that the most use of GEF is for IBM
themselves ?!
Those connected pieces seem to me quite like the connections
and actions bound to UI-components in VA...
So it is very likely that the first (actual) plugin based on GEF
is going to be some GUI-builder like thing forWSAD/Eclipse
(WSAD 5?) or a similar tool for the J2EE/WebApp part of
WSAD (like FrontPage or Dreamweaver have them to show
the links inside and outside a web app) though WSAD4 seems
to have a similar one but far from being that advanced.
Or am I getting something wrong here ?;)
I just really hope that the BIG SPENDER idea and mentality
of IBM does not stop THERE and such a UI might also be
CONTRIBUTED at least in a basic version if it is based on
GEF.
On the other hand if they don't I also see a LOT of good
people in the community maybe develop even BETTER
(or corresponding) stuff in that area that I do not fear the
lack of such UI enhancements for too long.
"Randy Hudson" <none@ibm.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ac0pnk$n6$1@rogue.oti.com...
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #3186 is a reply to message #3096] |
Mon, 20 May 2002 13:36 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: none.ibm.com
> And after all doesn't it seem (from the screenshots though they
> are somehow "electronic") that the most use of GEF is for IBM
> themselves ?!
Obviously IBM uses it, because IBM created it.
> Those connected pieces seem to me quite like the connections
> and actions bound to UI-components in VA...
Indeed, supporting the features of VA was a design constraint. While
perhaps half of the GEF clients won't care, GEF supports nested containers,
and connections between them, as well as connections between connections
themselves (Typically used to show how errors are handled, or parameters are
passed). Most applications will just have one level of nesting: the diagram
and its contents.
> So it is very likely that the first (actual) plugin based on GEF
> is going to be some GUI-builder like thing forWSAD/Eclipse
> (WSAD 5?) or a similar tool for the J2EE/WebApp part of
> WSAD (like FrontPage or Dreamweaver have them to show
> the links inside and outside a web app) though WSAD4 seems
> to have a similar one but far from being that advanced.
Commercial plugins built on GEF have shipped already.
> I just really hope that the BIG SPENDER idea and mentality
> of IBM does not stop THERE and such a UI might also be
> CONTRIBUTED at least in a basic version if it is based on
> GEF.
Which UI are you talking about that should be contributed?
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #3384 is a reply to message #3352] |
Tue, 21 May 2002 11:50 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: anders_biehl.yahoo.com
...like Impress...??
Btw, was your post a hint to me that I was unrealistic? I really don't know
how big of a project a diagramming tool would be...
-Anders
"Colin Sharples" <sharples@nz1.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:3CE97D40.6C0B0B30@nz1.ibm.com...
> And a screen-show presentation tool like... you know the one :-)
>
> Anders Biehl wrote:
> >
> > What about diagramming like MS Visio?
>
> --
> Colin M Sharples/New Zealand/IBM, IT Architect, BIS
> sharples@nz1.ibm.com, t: 64-4-5769853, m: 64-21-402085, f: 64-4-5765616
> "Sometimes I think the surest sign intelligent life exists
> elsewhere in the Universe is that it's never tried to contact us"
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #3898 is a reply to message #2695] |
Wed, 22 May 2002 20:42 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: crivet.rational.com
"Werner Keil" <keil@surveycom.com> wrote in message
news:acad3q$s8o$1@rogue.oti.com...
[...Snip...]
> Plus I hate the fact that XDE only works for WSAD so
> a really OPEN tool (based on GEF) is one I would like
> to see (and use or even take part in) a LOT.
[...Snip...]
Actually, XDE will also install on its own, without WSAD. In that case, it
installs the IBM WebSphere Studio Workbench and rebrands that.
/Charles
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #3903 is a reply to message #3898] |
Wed, 22 May 2002 21:10 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: none.nospam.com
and in this case you end up having to versions of the same
ide (WSAD based on eclipse 1.0 AND a new eclipse 2.0 build)
installed on your machine. as far as i understand this is exactly what
you not want. or is it not the big sales argument for xde to have
only one integrated environment?
working with XDE would be much more fun, if you could directly
install into eclipse.
-- mark
"Charles Rivet" <crivet@rational.com> wrote in message
news:acgv10$ksj$1@rogue.oti.com...
> "Werner Keil" <keil@surveycom.com> wrote in message
> news:acad3q$s8o$1@rogue.oti.com...
> [...Snip...]
> > Plus I hate the fact that XDE only works for WSAD so
> > a really OPEN tool (based on GEF) is one I would like
> > to see (and use or even take part in) a LOT.
> [...Snip...]
>
> Actually, XDE will also install on its own, without WSAD. In that case,
it
> installs the IBM WebSphere Studio Workbench and rebrands that.
>
> /Charles
>
>
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #3921 is a reply to message #3903] |
Thu, 23 May 2002 15:03 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: crivet.rational.com
One problem is that there is no way to determine if or where Eclipse is
installed...short of asking the user. This is not a nice installation
process and does not provide for a nice user experience. With WSAD, we can
actually determine that it is installed and where, so we can install XDE in
that environment. Obviously, if XDE is installed standalone, we also have
control over where we install the IBM WebSphere Studio Workbench platform...
By the way, if you install WSAD today, you will still have the same issue
with Eclipse 2.0, i.e., two development environments, so this is not
isolated to XDE. This would also be the case for other commercial tool
providers who prefer to use released and stable platforms for their
products. You will therefore have to wait for Eclipse 2.0 to be released,
and then for the IBM WebSphere Studio Workbench and Application Developer to
be released before you see a version of XDE for those platform.
And yes, XDE does provide an integrated environment, just not with the
version of the tool platform you want right now.
/Charles
"Mark" <none@nospam.com> wrote in message news:ach0t6$lni$1@rogue.oti.com...
> and in this case you end up having to versions of the same
> ide (WSAD based on eclipse 1.0 AND a new eclipse 2.0 build)
> installed on your machine. as far as i understand this is exactly what
> you not want. or is it not the big sales argument for xde to have
> only one integrated environment?
>
> working with XDE would be much more fun, if you could directly
> install into eclipse.
>
> -- mark
>
> "Charles Rivet" <crivet@rational.com> wrote in message
> news:acgv10$ksj$1@rogue.oti.com...
> > "Werner Keil" <keil@surveycom.com> wrote in message
> > news:acad3q$s8o$1@rogue.oti.com...
> > [...Snip...]
> > > Plus I hate the fact that XDE only works for WSAD so
> > > a really OPEN tool (based on GEF) is one I would like
> > > to see (and use or even take part in) a LOT.
> > [...Snip...]
> >
> > Actually, XDE will also install on its own, without WSAD. In that case,
> it
> > installs the IBM WebSphere Studio Workbench and rebrands that.
> >
> > /Charles
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #3942 is a reply to message #3921] |
Thu, 23 May 2002 19:15 |
Markus Weyerhaeuser
Messages: 11
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
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hi charles!
"Charles Rivet" <crivet@rational.com> wrote in message
news:acivg7$e8r$1@rogue.oti.com...
> One problem is that there is no way to determine if or where Eclipse is
> installed...short of asking the user. This is not a nice installation
> process and does not provide for a nice user experience. With WSAD, we
can
> actually determine that it is installed and where, so we can install XDE
in
> that environment. Obviously, if XDE is installed standalone, we also have
> control over where we install the IBM WebSphere Studio Workbench
platform...
well, eclipse doesn't even have a *simple* installer and people are able to
run it anyway. ;-)
unzipping an archive is not that bad actually and much better than a
installer polluting and messing
up your registry.
also the XDE installer could ask the user to point it to the eclipse install
directory. after
that the installer could even check if the plugin's directory exists or not.
it might even do some
more elaborate checks to make sure it is likely that XDE will run on the
given code base.
even if the installer finds a version of eclipse which is newer than
expected it could
display a warning and ask the user *really* wants to continue. would you
consider this
as "not a nice installation process"?
all in all if you are smart enough to do some UML design you should be smart
enough
to figure out how to install a plug-in. if not you better not start thinking
about
software architecture at all. ;-))
> By the way, if you install WSAD today, you will still have the same issue
> with Eclipse 2.0, i.e., two development environments, so this is not
> isolated to XDE.
what makes you think that i would want to install both, eclipse and WSAD?
they are both IDE's for developing java code. so why both of them? the case
of XDE is
a little different in my opinion. when i install XDE i need a UML design
tool as
just another plugin in addition to the many other plugin's i have installed.
> This would also be the case for other commercial tool
> providers who prefer to use released and stable platforms for their
> products.
hmm, i guess this is not really the point here. let's take eclipse v1.0 e.g.
i assume this is a stable platform by your definition. could i install XDE
on top of this on?
well, at least not today. why? it's a stable platform!
however it's ok to define minimum requirements (a.k.a. "stable" platform).
but XDE excludes *all* eclipse users without a good reason.
> You will therefore have to wait for Eclipse 2.0 to be released,
> and then for the IBM WebSphere Studio Workbench and Application Developer
to
> be released before you see a version of XDE for those platform.
this is exactly what i don't like on the deployment concept of XDE. i need
to wait one
cycle too long (the release of the WSAD platform) before i can use XDE with
the new
eclipse 2.0 code. this is not necessary because i will probably *never ever*
use WSAD.
> And yes, XDE does provide an integrated environment, just not with the
> version of the tool platform you want right now.
well, in this case XDE is no different to any other "integrated environment"
where everything
is integrated as long as you get everything from one vendor. (well, in XDE
case 2 vendor - but
one box)
i guess this conecpt is from the 80's. why do you think the eclipse
architecture is so much concernd about
integrating 3rd party tools as first class components? with this platform
it's possible
to install components from many different vendors and it *still* behaves in
the same consistent way.
in my believe you exclude all eclipse users from using XDE.
i don't see any technical reasons for this.
if this is company policy, i guess its a different story - but in this case
we don't have to
argue here ;-))
> /Charles
-- mark
>
> "Mark" <none@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ach0t6$lni$1@rogue.oti.com...
> > and in this case you end up having to versions of the same
> > ide (WSAD based on eclipse 1.0 AND a new eclipse 2.0 build)
> > installed on your machine. as far as i understand this is exactly what
> > you not want. or is it not the big sales argument for xde to have
> > only one integrated environment?
> >
> > working with XDE would be much more fun, if you could directly
> > install into eclipse.
> >
> > -- mark
> >
> > "Charles Rivet" <crivet@rational.com> wrote in message
> > news:acgv10$ksj$1@rogue.oti.com...
> > > "Werner Keil" <keil@surveycom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:acad3q$s8o$1@rogue.oti.com...
> > > [...Snip...]
> > > > Plus I hate the fact that XDE only works for WSAD so
> > > > a really OPEN tool (based on GEF) is one I would like
> > > > to see (and use or even take part in) a LOT.
> > > [...Snip...]
> > >
> > > Actually, XDE will also install on its own, without WSAD. In that
case,
> > it
> > > installs the IBM WebSphere Studio Workbench and rebrands that.
> > >
> > > /Charles
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #3955 is a reply to message #3942] |
Thu, 23 May 2002 20:52 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: crivet.rational.com
Some comments have been snipped either because I will agree to disagree on
those points and I did not feel anything more could be contributed, or
because company policy prevents me from further dicsussion (a point you
hinted at). If you feel the need to discuss them further, please do not
hesitate to bring them back and I will see what I can do.
"Mark Weyerhaeuser" <m.weyerhaeuser@hookipaa.com> wrote in message
news:acjeca$nfo$1@rogue.oti.com...
> hi charles!
>
> "Charles Rivet" <crivet@rational.com> wrote in message
> news:acivg7$e8r$1@rogue.oti.com...
[...Snip...]
> > By the way, if you install WSAD today, you will still have the same
issue
> > with Eclipse 2.0, i.e., two development environments, so this is not
> > isolated to XDE.
>
> what makes you think that i would want to install both, eclipse and WSAD?
> they are both IDE's for developing java code. so why both of them? the
case
> of XDE is
> a little different in my opinion. when i install XDE i need a UML design
> tool as
> just another plugin in addition to the many other plugin's i have
installed.
Granted, the comparison with WSS AD was off.
> > This would also be the case for other commercial tool
> > providers who prefer to use released and stable platforms for their
> > products.
>
> hmm, i guess this is not really the point here. let's take eclipse v1.0
e.g.
> i assume this is a stable platform by your definition. could i install XDE
> on top of this on?
> well, at least not today. why? it's a stable platform!
You would not need to install XDE on top of Eclipse 1.0. XDE includes _all_
of Eclipse 1.0 either as part of the IBM WebSphere Studio Workbench (when
installed standalone) or as part of IBM WebSphere Studio Application
Developer. It would be very easy to either point XDE to your previous
Eclipse workspace, or to move your existing projects into the XDE workspace,
especially if they are under source control. You can also use any other
Eclipse 1.0 plugins that you desire.
[...Snip...]
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #3967 is a reply to message #3961] |
Thu, 23 May 2002 23:08 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: none.ibm.com
> Very interesting discussion indeed. I have only one question: when you
live
> with "development" stream of Eclipse first of all you have a good chance
to
> have all bugs fixed in nearly no time. The second benefit is to have a lot
Why live with such bugs at all? And changing APIs?
> of new constantly introduced features - R1.0 looks like something from
stone
> age comparable to R2.0. I can understand tradeoff between stable version
> releases and unstable funny gadgets. I can't understand why large
companies
> like IBM, Rational and others do not produce (and do not contribute back
to
> Eclipse community) common pathches and fixes for 1.0 (Released) stream?
You mean like the R1.0 patches and NLS translations that IBM just donated to
the community? Along with all of Eclipse which IBM donated in the first
place?
> it means that all products exist with full bug set inhereted from original
> release and customers must wait until next release to have annoying bag
> fixed (1 year or so)?. Or that simply means that every vendor have own
> patches and fixes and they are never collaborate on such work?
Companies can make any patches they want. That's the whole point to making
Eclipse open source.
Vendors are required to make any patches available to everyone in source
form.
> I can't ever say which scenario is worse, to be honest. In first case I
> can't understand how to justify money for fully unsupported product (OK,
> partially, only main part of product is unsupported), in second case I
can't
> see how customer will glue together different patches in one set of
plugins.
I don't think any company is selling commercial software based on Eclipse
that is only partially supported. They would likely fix any problem with
the product.
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #4034 is a reply to message #4021] |
Sun, 26 May 2002 15:45 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: none.ibm.com
> I don't get it. What is so different between a WSAD and Eclipse install
> that makes it easier to detect? The only thing I can think of is that
> you are looking for some registry entry?
That's right, XDE looks for a registry entry which WSAD installer creates.
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| Re: POLL: What will you be building with GEF? [message #6914 is a reply to message #6850] |
Sun, 02 June 2002 18:29 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: none.ibm.com
> A problem with Draw2D is, that is is nearly 0 javadoc'ed. Otherwise cool
> stuff !
If you know how to use a JComponent, you can use 90% of the figures,
layouts, and borders. This leaves connections, anchors, and connection
routers. There is a demo that shows simple connection usage.
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #6938 is a reply to message #2346] |
Sun, 02 June 2002 22:59 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: scott-usenet.javadude.com
"Eben Stewart" <estewart@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:ac399j$2c3$1@rogue.oti.com...
>
>
> > Code Generation views (VCE-like support)
>
> Please, please, please?
>
> This was always a good feature of VAJ, and would be very useful - esp if
it
> also supported SWT as well as AWT/Swing.
>
> -- Eben Stewart
>
>
I'm working on one with GEF right now... Going very slowly, but it looks
like GEF provides about 40% of the stuff I wanted to do in my visual
builder, so it seems to make sense to use it.
Going slowly (as I read the code to figure out what it's doing -- the
javadocs aren't helping much).
Perhaps, once I figure it all out, I'll write a tutorial.
-- Scott
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| Re: What will you be building with GEF? [message #230103 is a reply to message #6938] |
Wed, 31 January 2007 16:47 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: bgil-nospam.nospam.ca
For tutorial have a look at http://eclipsewiki.editme.com/GefDescription
"Scott Stanchfield" <scott-usenet@javadude.com> wrote in message
news:ade717$7vl$1@rogue.oti.com...
> "Eben Stewart" <estewart@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
> news:ac399j$2c3$1@rogue.oti.com...
>>
>>
>> > Code Generation views (VCE-like support)
>>
>> Please, please, please?
>>
>> This was always a good feature of VAJ, and would be very useful - esp if
> it
>> also supported SWT as well as AWT/Swing.
>>
>> -- Eben Stewart
>>
>>
>
> I'm working on one with GEF right now... Going very slowly, but it looks
> like GEF provides about 40% of the stuff I wanted to do in my visual
> builder, so it seems to make sense to use it.
>
> Going slowly (as I read the code to figure out what it's doing -- the
> javadocs aren't helping much).
>
> Perhaps, once I figure it all out, I'll write a tutorial.
> -- Scott
>
>
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