Home » Modeling » GMF (Graphical Modeling Framework) » Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor
| Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor [message #144971] |
Tue, 31 July 2007 09:52  |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com
Matt,
I'm not sure what graphical forms editing means, but if you are using
EMF and GEF, I'm quite sure that GMF will help a lot with integrating
those two things. I've added the GMF newsgroup to the "to" list of the
reply, since that's really the best place to ask this question.
Matt Dickie wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am wanting to write a graphical forms editor for a database language
> (a visual editor in other words). The serialized form of a 'form' is
> XML, and we have a schema for this.
>
> I certainly need to use GEF, and EMF would seem to be useful in terms
> of providing the binding between the XML and the object model of the
> form. The question is, is GMF any use? It seems to be hardwired for
> node/connection type models.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt D.
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| Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor [message #144979 is a reply to message #144971] |
Tue, 31 July 2007 10:03  |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: matt.querix.com
Hi Ed,
Thanks for replying so quickly. By a 'form', I mean a GUI with
textfields, buttons, lists, etc. So basically I'm writing something a
bit like the VE, except the form is serialized to XML rather than Java.
All the papers and examples I've seen for EMF and GMF talk about
something that can be displayed as a graph with nodes and edges, and
obviously a graphical form (a window with widgets) isn't like that.
Matt
Ed Merks wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I'm not sure what graphical forms editing means, but if you are using
> EMF and GEF, I'm quite sure that GMF will help a lot with integrating
> those two things. I've added the GMF newsgroup to the "to" list of the
> reply, since that's really the best place to ask this question.
>
>
> Matt Dickie wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am wanting to write a graphical forms editor for a database language
>> (a visual editor in other words). The serialized form of a 'form' is
>> XML, and we have a schema for this.
>>
>> I certainly need to use GEF, and EMF would seem to be useful in terms
>> of providing the binding between the XML and the object model of the
>> form. The question is, is GMF any use? It seems to be hardwired for
>> node/connection type models.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Matt D.
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| Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor [message #144986 is a reply to message #144979] |
Tue, 31 July 2007 10:16 |
| Eclipse User |
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Hi Matt,
In GMF, we consider "graphical" to be what you'd expect to find on a
(traditional) diagramming surface. So, just like you say, using nodes and
edges. Perhaps I'm missing the point of what you're trying to do, but if
it's just traditional forms UI you're looking for, why use GMF (or even GEF)
at all?
Nevertheless, we have some support for form-based UI generation using a
decorator model, as documented here:
http://wiki.eclipse.org/GMF_New_and_Noteworthy#Graphdef_visu al_editor_.28org
..eclipse.gmf.graphdef.editor.29_enhanced
Note that it is currently undergoing some refactoring.
Best,
Rich
On 7/31/07 10:03 AM, in article f8nfao$n24$1@build.eclipse.org, "Matt
Dickie" <matt@querix.com> wrote:
> Hi Ed,
>
> Thanks for replying so quickly. By a 'form', I mean a GUI with
> textfields, buttons, lists, etc. So basically I'm writing something a
> bit like the VE, except the form is serialized to XML rather than Java.
> All the papers and examples I've seen for EMF and GMF talk about
> something that can be displayed as a graph with nodes and edges, and
> obviously a graphical form (a window with widgets) isn't like that.
>
> Matt
>
> Ed Merks wrote:
>> Matt,
>>
>> I'm not sure what graphical forms editing means, but if you are using
>> EMF and GEF, I'm quite sure that GMF will help a lot with integrating
>> those two things. I've added the GMF newsgroup to the "to" list of the
>> reply, since that's really the best place to ask this question.
>>
>>
>> Matt Dickie wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am wanting to write a graphical forms editor for a database language
>>> (a visual editor in other words). The serialized form of a 'form' is
>>> XML, and we have a schema for this.
>>>
>>> I certainly need to use GEF, and EMF would seem to be useful in terms
>>> of providing the binding between the XML and the object model of the
>>> form. The question is, is GMF any use? It seems to be hardwired for
>>> node/connection type models.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Matt D.
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| Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor [message #144992 is a reply to message #144979] |
Tue, 31 July 2007 10:17 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com
Matt,
Well, if you need GEF, I assume you are doing something more than just a
form with widgets, in which case GMF will help. If you aren't needing
GEF, then probably EMF is sufficient. We plan to work on support for
forms for our coming release. In
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=108470 there is an
attachment for supporting a master details view using EMF.
Matt Dickie wrote:
> Hi Ed,
>
> Thanks for replying so quickly. By a 'form', I mean a GUI with
> textfields, buttons, lists, etc. So basically I'm writing something a
> bit like the VE, except the form is serialized to XML rather than
> Java. All the papers and examples I've seen for EMF and GMF talk about
> something that can be displayed as a graph with nodes and edges, and
> obviously a graphical form (a window with widgets) isn't like that.
>
> Matt
>
> Ed Merks wrote:
>> Matt,
>>
>> I'm not sure what graphical forms editing means, but if you are using
>> EMF and GEF, I'm quite sure that GMF will help a lot with integrating
>> those two things. I've added the GMF newsgroup to the "to" list of
>> the reply, since that's really the best place to ask this question.
>>
>>
>> Matt Dickie wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am wanting to write a graphical forms editor for a database
>>> language (a visual editor in other words). The serialized form of a
>>> 'form' is XML, and we have a schema for this.
>>>
>>> I certainly need to use GEF, and EMF would seem to be useful in
>>> terms of providing the binding between the XML and the object model
>>> of the form. The question is, is GMF any use? It seems to be
>>> hardwired for node/connection type models.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Matt D.
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| Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor [message #145058 is a reply to message #144986] |
Wed, 01 August 2007 06:33 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: matt.querix.com
Hi Richard,
I'm intending to use GEF as I was under the impression that this is the
tool for graphical editors, including 'forms' editing, in Eclipse. Even
though the 'form' isn't a diagram as such, GEF still provides stuff we
need like the palette. I notice that VE (the Eclipse Visual Editor) uses
both GEF and EMF which is what led me to believe I also need these tools.
I am intending to use EMF for it's XML schema binding functionality - I
give it the schema and it gives me the object model for the forms, as
well as the code to serialize and deserialize this model to and from XML.
I am thiking of using GMF as I have read that this bridges GEF and EMF,
for example the separate command stacks, for example. However, as I said
before the idea that my editor is a diagram one, with nodes and edges
seems to be built in to GMF - leading me to think that perhaps I should
just to GEF and EMF, or even just GEF and do the serialization myself.
I think perhaps you misunderstood my last post - our editor would not
_be_ a form, with widgets and so on, but a 'form editor' - like
Eclipse's VE project.
Thanks
Matt
Richard Gronback wrote:
> Hi Matt,
>
> In GMF, we consider "graphical" to be what you'd expect to find on a
> (traditional) diagramming surface. So, just like you say, using nodes and
> edges. Perhaps I'm missing the point of what you're trying to do, but if
> it's just traditional forms UI you're looking for, why use GMF (or even GEF)
> at all?
>
> Nevertheless, we have some support for form-based UI generation using a
> decorator model, as documented here:
> http://wiki.eclipse.org/GMF_New_and_Noteworthy#Graphdef_visu al_editor_.28org
> .eclipse.gmf.graphdef.editor.29_enhanced
>
> Note that it is currently undergoing some refactoring.
>
> Best,
> Rich
>
>
> On 7/31/07 10:03 AM, in article f8nfao$n24$1@build.eclipse.org, "Matt
> Dickie" <matt@querix.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Ed,
>>
>>Thanks for replying so quickly. By a 'form', I mean a GUI with
>>textfields, buttons, lists, etc. So basically I'm writing something a
>>bit like the VE, except the form is serialized to XML rather than Java.
>>All the papers and examples I've seen for EMF and GMF talk about
>>something that can be displayed as a graph with nodes and edges, and
>>obviously a graphical form (a window with widgets) isn't like that.
>>
>>Matt
>>
>>Ed Merks wrote:
>>
>>>Matt,
>>>
>>>I'm not sure what graphical forms editing means, but if you are using
>>>EMF and GEF, I'm quite sure that GMF will help a lot with integrating
>>>those two things. I've added the GMF newsgroup to the "to" list of the
>>>reply, since that's really the best place to ask this question.
>>>
>>>
>>>Matt Dickie wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>I am wanting to write a graphical forms editor for a database language
>>>>(a visual editor in other words). The serialized form of a 'form' is
>>>>XML, and we have a schema for this.
>>>>
>>>>I certainly need to use GEF, and EMF would seem to be useful in terms
>>>>of providing the binding between the XML and the object model of the
>>>>form. The question is, is GMF any use? It seems to be hardwired for
>>>>node/connection type models.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>>Matt D.
>
>
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| Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor [message #145065 is a reply to message #145058] |
Wed, 01 August 2007 07:01 |
| Eclipse User |
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Hi Matt,
OK, I think I get it... You have a domain model for describing forms, in the
form of an XSD you'll import to EMF, and want to graphically design these
forms using an editor based on GEF or GMF, right? I'd start with GMF, as it
will at least get you started quickly with bridging GEF and EMF and a basic
set of figures. Layout is another thing ;)
If it's a WYSIWYG style of form designer you're looking for (as is the case
of VE), take a look at the GMF experimental SDK. The GMF graphical
definition editor will provide you with an idea of how to accomplish this.
The link below takes you to the N&N for the decorator model for forms, which
happens also to be used in the context of creating this type of capability.
Best,
Rich
On 8/1/07 6:33 AM, in article f8pne3$dqo$1@build.eclipse.org, "Matt Dickie"
<matt@querix.com> wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> I'm intending to use GEF as I was under the impression that this is the
> tool for graphical editors, including 'forms' editing, in Eclipse. Even
> though the 'form' isn't a diagram as such, GEF still provides stuff we
> need like the palette. I notice that VE (the Eclipse Visual Editor) uses
> both GEF and EMF which is what led me to believe I also need these tools.
>
> I am intending to use EMF for it's XML schema binding functionality - I
> give it the schema and it gives me the object model for the forms, as
> well as the code to serialize and deserialize this model to and from XML.
>
> I am thiking of using GMF as I have read that this bridges GEF and EMF,
> for example the separate command stacks, for example. However, as I said
> before the idea that my editor is a diagram one, with nodes and edges
> seems to be built in to GMF - leading me to think that perhaps I should
> just to GEF and EMF, or even just GEF and do the serialization myself.
>
> I think perhaps you misunderstood my last post - our editor would not
> _be_ a form, with widgets and so on, but a 'form editor' - like
> Eclipse's VE project.
>
> Thanks
>
> Matt
>
> Richard Gronback wrote:
>> Hi Matt,
>>
>> In GMF, we consider "graphical" to be what you'd expect to find on a
>> (traditional) diagramming surface. So, just like you say, using nodes and
>> edges. Perhaps I'm missing the point of what you're trying to do, but if
>> it's just traditional forms UI you're looking for, why use GMF (or even GEF)
>> at all?
>>
>> Nevertheless, we have some support for form-based UI generation using a
>> decorator model, as documented here:
>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/GMF_New_and_Noteworthy#Graphdef_visu al_editor_.28org
>> .eclipse.gmf.graphdef.editor.29_enhanced
>>
>> Note that it is currently undergoing some refactoring.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich
>>
>>
>> On 7/31/07 10:03 AM, in article f8nfao$n24$1@build.eclipse.org, "Matt
>> Dickie" <matt@querix.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi Ed,
>>>
>>> Thanks for replying so quickly. By a 'form', I mean a GUI with
>>> textfields, buttons, lists, etc. So basically I'm writing something a
>>> bit like the VE, except the form is serialized to XML rather than Java.
>>> All the papers and examples I've seen for EMF and GMF talk about
>>> something that can be displayed as a graph with nodes and edges, and
>>> obviously a graphical form (a window with widgets) isn't like that.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>> Ed Merks wrote:
>>>
>>>> Matt,
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what graphical forms editing means, but if you are using
>>>> EMF and GEF, I'm quite sure that GMF will help a lot with integrating
>>>> those two things. I've added the GMF newsgroup to the "to" list of the
>>>> reply, since that's really the best place to ask this question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matt Dickie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am wanting to write a graphical forms editor for a database language
>>>>> (a visual editor in other words). The serialized form of a 'form' is
>>>>> XML, and we have a schema for this.
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly need to use GEF, and EMF would seem to be useful in terms
>>>>> of providing the binding between the XML and the object model of the
>>>>> form. The question is, is GMF any use? It seems to be hardwired for
>>>>> node/connection type models.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt D.
>>
>>
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| Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor [message #146170 is a reply to message #144979] |
Fri, 10 August 2007 09:01 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: mail.volker-wegert.de
Hi Matt,
I've done something simlilar using GMF, and it saved me a lot of manual
coding. Be prepared to put some additional effort into the part of the editor
that handles the layout - this most certainly won't work out of the
box. Depending on whether you're using an automated layout manager like most
java frameworks or some coordinate-based system, you may have to teach the
editor how to layout your components or you may have to extend the editor to
transfer the coordinates between your 'form' model and the GMF components.
Note that the way GMF works puts a fixed limit on the depth that nested
components can assume. For example, in SWT, you can place a Compartment in a
Compartment in a Compartment .. ad infinitum - that's not possible with the
GMF generated editor, because you have to set the rules on "what object can be
placed in which compartment" in the graphical definition, and this model
allows no recursion.
HTH
Volker
Matt Dickie <matt@querix.com> writes:
> Thanks for replying so quickly. By a 'form', I mean a GUI with textfields,
> buttons, lists, etc. So basically I'm writing something a bit like the VE,
> except the form is serialized to XML rather than Java. All the papers and
> examples I've seen for EMF and GMF talk about something that can be
> displayed as a graph with nodes and edges, and obviously a graphical form (a
> window with widgets) isn't like that.
> Ed Merks wrote:
>> I'm not sure what graphical forms editing means, but if you are using
>> EMF and GEF, I'm quite sure that GMF will help a lot with integrating those
>> two things. I've added the GMF newsgroup to the "to" list of the reply,
>> since that's really the best place to ask this question.
>> Matt Dickie wrote:
>>> I am wanting to write a graphical forms editor for a database language (a
>>> visual editor in other words). The serialized form of a 'form' is XML, and
>>> we have a schema for this.
>>>
>>> I certainly need to use GEF, and EMF would seem to be useful in terms of
>>> providing the binding between the XML and the object model of the
>>> form. The question is, is GMF any use? It seems to be hardwired for
>>> node/connection type models.
--
* Volker Wegert * http://www.volker-wegert.de/contact *
* "You need the computing power of a Pentium, 16 MB RAM and 1 GB Harddisk
* to run Win95. It took the computing power of 3 Commodore 64 to fly to
* the Moon. Something is wrong here, and it wasn't the Apollo."
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| Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor [message #146188 is a reply to message #146170] |
Fri, 10 August 2007 09:39 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: atoulme.intalio.com
Hi Volger,
in the STP BPMN modeler, we can create as many nested subprocesses as we
want. I think that if your semantic model supports the idea of
recursion, everything should just be sorted out fine.
It's certainly not as straightforward as SWT is to code though.
HTH
Antoine
Volker Wegert wrote:
> Hi Matt,
>
> I've done something simlilar using GMF, and it saved me a lot of manual
> coding. Be prepared to put some additional effort into the part of the editor
> that handles the layout - this most certainly won't work out of the
> box. Depending on whether you're using an automated layout manager like most
> java frameworks or some coordinate-based system, you may have to teach the
> editor how to layout your components or you may have to extend the editor to
> transfer the coordinates between your 'form' model and the GMF components.
>
> Note that the way GMF works puts a fixed limit on the depth that nested
> components can assume. For example, in SWT, you can place a Compartment in a
> Compartment in a Compartment .. ad infinitum - that's not possible with the
> GMF generated editor, because you have to set the rules on "what object can be
> placed in which compartment" in the graphical definition, and this model
> allows no recursion.
>
> HTH
> Volker
>
> Matt Dickie <matt@querix.com> writes:
>> Thanks for replying so quickly. By a 'form', I mean a GUI with textfields,
>> buttons, lists, etc. So basically I'm writing something a bit like the VE,
>> except the form is serialized to XML rather than Java. All the papers and
>> examples I've seen for EMF and GMF talk about something that can be
>> displayed as a graph with nodes and edges, and obviously a graphical form (a
>> window with widgets) isn't like that.
>
>> Ed Merks wrote:
>>> I'm not sure what graphical forms editing means, but if you are using
>>> EMF and GEF, I'm quite sure that GMF will help a lot with integrating those
>>> two things. I've added the GMF newsgroup to the "to" list of the reply,
>>> since that's really the best place to ask this question.
>
>>> Matt Dickie wrote:
>>>> I am wanting to write a graphical forms editor for a database language (a
>>>> visual editor in other words). The serialized form of a 'form' is XML, and
>>>> we have a schema for this.
>>>>
>>>> I certainly need to use GEF, and EMF would seem to be useful in terms of
>>>> providing the binding between the XML and the object model of the
>>>> form. The question is, is GMF any use? It seems to be hardwired for
>>>> node/connection type models.
>
--
Intalio, the Open Source BPMS Company
<a href="http://www.intalio.com">http://www.intalio.com</a>
<a href="http://bpms.intalio.com">Community website</a>
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| Re: GMF or just GEF for our form editor [message #146197 is a reply to message #146188] |
Fri, 10 August 2007 11:51 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: mail.volker-wegert.de
Antoine Toulme <atoulme@intalio.com> writes:
> Volker Wegert wrote:
>> Note that the way GMF works puts a fixed limit on the depth that nested
>> components can assume. For example, in SWT, you can place a Compartment in
>> a Compartment in a Compartment .. ad infinitum - that's not possible with
>> the GMF generated editor, because you have to set the rules on "what object
>> can be placed in which compartment" in the graphical definition, and this
>> model allows no recursion.
> in the STP BPMN modeler, we can create as many nested subprocesses as we
> want. I think that if your semantic model supports the idea of recursion,
> everything should just be sorted out fine.
I'd like to see how this is done - I wasn't able to figure this out when I
created my gmfgraph models. Where can I find the models?
Volker
--
* Volker Wegert * http://www.volker-wegert.de/contact *
* "Bevor man zwischen den Zeilen liest, sollte man das auf denselben
* versuchen." (J. Malmsheimer)
*
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