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[QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92084] Sun, 12 October 2008 12:07 Go to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mahdider.students.uni-mainz.de

Hello,

is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its
qvtotrace file?

Best Regards,
Mahdi D-Manesh
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92136 is a reply to message #92084] Sun, 12 October 2008 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Hi Mahdi,

You can use the inout parameter for the model.


Regards,

Alfons

"Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
news:gct7ci$6pf$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hello,
>
> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its qvtotrace
> file?
>
> Best Regards,
> Mahdi D-Manesh
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92166 is a reply to message #92136] Sun, 12 October 2008 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mahdider.students.uni-mainz.de

Hi Alfons,

so you mean I should do something like this?
transformation(inout model : SOME_M_M)

I did not think about it but sure... this can work.

But generally speaking, this would mean that I kind of... have to take
care about changes myself, right? There is no mechanism that determines
automatically "what changed" and just updates the existing target model
with this changes, in order to save time?

Kind Regards,
Mahdi D-Manesh


Alfons Laarman schrieb:
> Hi Mahdi,
>
> You can use the inout parameter for the model.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Alfons
>
> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
> news:gct7ci$6pf$1@build.eclipse.org...
>> Hello,
>>
>> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
>> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its qvtotrace
>> file?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>
>
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92180 is a reply to message #92166] Sun, 12 October 2008 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
If you want incremental updates and things like that you should use QVT
relations. This is not in the scope of QVTO.


Regards,

Alfons

"Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
news:gcthpu$a9l$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hi Alfons,
>
> so you mean I should do something like this?
> transformation(inout model : SOME_M_M)
>
> I did not think about it but sure... this can work.
>
> But generally speaking, this would mean that I kind of... have to take
> care about changes myself, right? There is no mechanism that determines
> automatically "what changed" and just updates the existing target model
> with this changes, in order to save time?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Mahdi D-Manesh
>
>
> Alfons Laarman schrieb:
>> Hi Mahdi,
>>
>> You can use the inout parameter for the model.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Alfons
>>
>> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
>> news:gct7ci$6pf$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
>>> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its
>>> qvtotrace
>>> file?
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>
>>
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92192 is a reply to message #92180] Mon, 13 October 2008 03:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mahdider.students.uni-mainz.de

Hey,

okay that makes sense. I just wondered if some mechanism is present in
QVTO as well.

Regards,
Mahdi


Alfons Laarman schrieb:
> If you want incremental updates and things like that you should use QVT
> relations. This is not in the scope of QVTO.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Alfons
>
> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
> news:gcthpu$a9l$1@build.eclipse.org...
>> Hi Alfons,
>>
>> so you mean I should do something like this?
>> transformation(inout model : SOME_M_M)
>>
>> I did not think about it but sure... this can work.
>>
>> But generally speaking, this would mean that I kind of... have to take
>> care about changes myself, right? There is no mechanism that determines
>> automatically "what changed" and just updates the existing target model
>> with this changes, in order to save time?
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>
>>
>> Alfons Laarman schrieb:
>>> Hi Mahdi,
>>>
>>> You can use the inout parameter for the model.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Alfons
>>>
>>> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
>>> news:gct7ci$6pf$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
>>>> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its
>>>> qvtotrace
>>>> file?
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>>
>
>
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92333 is a reply to message #92084] Mon, 13 October 2008 06:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Hi Mahdi,

While spec defines that given transformation can be executed in context
of existed trace at present Qvto doesn't implement these capabilities.

Theoretically existed .qvtotrace instance can be loaded (with uri
"http:///www.eclipse.org/m2m/qvt/operational/trace.ecore") and
consulted. But this of course is very-very far from what spec means.

We'll consider incremental update feature as nice-to-have for future
Qvto release (as a part of Eclipse Galileo Simultaneous Release).

--
Sergey


Mahdi D-Manesh wrote:
> Hello,
>
> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its
> qvtotrace file?
>
> Best Regards,
> Mahdi D-Manesh
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92361 is a reply to message #92333] Mon, 13 October 2008 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mahdider.students.uni-mainz.de

Hi Sergey,

I understand. Actually I did not miss incremental updates of models up
to now but I can see this feature being usefull for very complex models.

For now the QVTO seems to be quite responsive and well performing!

Best Regards,
Mahdi


Sergey Boyko schrieb:
> Hi Mahdi,
>
> While spec defines that given transformation can be executed in context
> of existed trace at present Qvto doesn't implement these capabilities.
>
> Theoretically existed .qvtotrace instance can be loaded (with uri
> "http:///www.eclipse.org/m2m/qvt/operational/trace.ecore") and
> consulted. But this of course is very-very far from what spec means.
>
> We'll consider incremental update feature as nice-to-have for future
> Qvto release (as a part of Eclipse Galileo Simultaneous Release).
>
> --
> Sergey
>
>
> Mahdi D-Manesh wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
>> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its
>> qvtotrace file?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Mahdi D-Manesh
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92451 is a reply to message #92180] Tue, 14 October 2008 07:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: Alexander.Igdalov.borland.com

Hi Alfons,

Why not? The spec is, say, very laconic about updates but it doesn't
prohibit them for QVTO, to my mind. What are execution traces then for?

Regards,
Alex.

Alfons Laarman wrote:
> If you want incremental updates and things like that you should use QVT
> relations. This is not in the scope of QVTO.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Alfons
>
> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
> news:gcthpu$a9l$1@build.eclipse.org...
>> Hi Alfons,
>>
>> so you mean I should do something like this?
>> transformation(inout model : SOME_M_M)
>>
>> I did not think about it but sure... this can work.
>>
>> But generally speaking, this would mean that I kind of... have to take
>> care about changes myself, right? There is no mechanism that determines
>> automatically "what changed" and just updates the existing target model
>> with this changes, in order to save time?
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>
>>
>> Alfons Laarman schrieb:
>>> Hi Mahdi,
>>>
>>> You can use the inout parameter for the model.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Alfons
>>>
>>> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
>>> news:gct7ci$6pf$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
>>>> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its
>>>> qvtotrace
>>>> file?
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>>
>
>
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92463 is a reply to message #92451] Tue, 14 October 2008 08:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mahdider.students.uni-mainz.de

Hey Alex,

in my eyes, such features like incremental updates should be "cross QVT
Language" in an ideal world. At least tracing would allow this, besides
serving debug purposes.

Best Regards,
Mahdi

Alexander Igdalov schrieb:
> Hi Alfons,
>
> Why not? The spec is, say, very laconic about updates but it doesn't
> prohibit them for QVTO, to my mind. What are execution traces then for?
>
> Regards,
> Alex.
>
> Alfons Laarman wrote:
>> If you want incremental updates and things like that you should use
>> QVT relations. This is not in the scope of QVTO.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Alfons
>>
>> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
>> news:gcthpu$a9l$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>> Hi Alfons,
>>>
>>> so you mean I should do something like this?
>>> transformation(inout model : SOME_M_M)
>>>
>>> I did not think about it but sure... this can work.
>>>
>>> But generally speaking, this would mean that I kind of... have to take
>>> care about changes myself, right? There is no mechanism that determines
>>> automatically "what changed" and just updates the existing target model
>>> with this changes, in order to save time?
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>>
>>>
>>> Alfons Laarman schrieb:
>>>> Hi Mahdi,
>>>>
>>>> You can use the inout parameter for the model.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Alfons
>>>>
>>>> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
>>>> news:gct7ci$6pf$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
>>>>> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its
>>>>> qvtotrace
>>>>> file?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92478 is a reply to message #92463] Tue, 14 October 2008 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: Alexander.Igdalov.borland.com

Hi Mahdi,

Well, some odd-looking things in QVT are in fact aimed to serve the
updates goal. For instance, the prohibition to re-execute a mapping with
the same in/inout parameters. It is an irritating limitation for a
transformation writer but in when considering it in the context of
updates it turns vital. If it weren't introduced which of the target
objects would be updated?
All that IMO is for making a single transformation that could be used
both to create and update the target model.

Cheers,
Alex.

Mahdi D-Manesh wrote:

> Hey Alex,
>
> in my eyes, such features like incremental updates should be "cross QVT
> Language" in an ideal world. At least tracing would allow this, besides
> serving debug purposes.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mahdi
>
> Alexander Igdalov schrieb:
>> Hi Alfons,
>>
>> Why not? The spec is, say, very laconic about updates but it doesn't
>> prohibit them for QVTO, to my mind. What are execution traces then for?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex.
>>
>> Alfons Laarman wrote:
>>> If you want incremental updates and things like that you should use
>>> QVT relations. This is not in the scope of QVTO.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Alfons
>>>
>>> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
>>> news:gcthpu$a9l$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>> Hi Alfons,
>>>>
>>>> so you mean I should do something like this?
>>>> transformation(inout model : SOME_M_M)
>>>>
>>>> I did not think about it but sure... this can work.
>>>>
>>>> But generally speaking, this would mean that I kind of... have to take
>>>> care about changes myself, right? There is no mechanism that determines
>>>> automatically "what changed" and just updates the existing target model
>>>> with this changes, in order to save time?
>>>>
>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alfons Laarman schrieb:
>>>>> Hi Mahdi,
>>>>>
>>>>> You can use the inout parameter for the model.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Alfons
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
>>>>> news:gct7ci$6pf$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
>>>>>> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its
>>>>>> qvtotrace
>>>>>> file?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
Re: [QVTO] Delta Transformations [message #92629 is a reply to message #92451] Thu, 16 October 2008 18:24 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Actually I have to say that "I read it somewhere".
Your solution for incremental updates sounds sound. Yet I think the problem
can get more complex, Ill get back to you on this...


Regards,

Alfons

"Alexander Igdalov" <Alexander.Igdalov@borland.com> schreef in bericht
news:gd1uf8$2jl$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hi Alfons,
>
> Why not? The spec is, say, very laconic about updates but it doesn't
> prohibit them for QVTO, to my mind. What are execution traces then for?
>
> Regards,
> Alex.
>
> Alfons Laarman wrote:
>> If you want incremental updates and things like that you should use QVT
>> relations. This is not in the scope of QVTO.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Alfons
>>
>> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
>> news:gcthpu$a9l$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>> Hi Alfons,
>>>
>>> so you mean I should do something like this?
>>> transformation(inout model : SOME_M_M)
>>>
>>> I did not think about it but sure... this can work.
>>>
>>> But generally speaking, this would mean that I kind of... have to take
>>> care about changes myself, right? There is no mechanism that determines
>>> automatically "what changed" and just updates the existing target model
>>> with this changes, in order to save time?
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>>
>>>
>>> Alfons Laarman schrieb:
>>>> Hi Mahdi,
>>>>
>>>> You can use the inout parameter for the model.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Alfons
>>>>
>>>> "Mahdi D-Manesh" <mahdider@students.uni-mainz.de> schreef in bericht
>>>> news:gct7ci$6pf$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> is there a possibility to update an existing target model instead of
>>>>> recreating it each time? Or is QVTO actually doing this with its
>>>>> qvtotrace
>>>>> file?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Mahdi D-Manesh
>>>>
>>
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